Lox, bagel and cream cheese

[jmakinen]

Why not, yummy indeed - but isn't lugging fresh fish & seafood from the other side of Europe a bit costly/non-eco friendly (hmm so is travelling to Spain come to think of it)... at one point or another, you just need to accept that some Spanish foods are only available in Spain, etc...

I don't think we need to get into that. As long as Fortum can pay Lilius millions and millions on a pension - and London and NY can pay billions in banker bonuses - the rest of us mortals don't need to think of the carbon footprint of a red snapper!

[sammy]

So, what you basically are saying is that we should only allow one, true, pure variety of The Bagel to exist?

Ok

Lerruz know if you find them! (Or, alternatively, list all the joints where "bagels" are crap - that helps everyone enormously to find the good, genuine ones! )

[AldenG]

Something for everyone here.

Jmakinen can tell us whether these bagels are any good.

The start of the soundtrack should appeal to sammy and tuulen, at least.

For the Kinderszen in track 2, tuulen can tell us how the piano is tuned -- I would coin the term "just untonation" to describe it.

I haven't had cause to complain about bagels in Atlanta. What I can't get is decent kaiser rolls or really any of the bread I would want in a Philadelphia- or NYC-style sub. Of course it has been forever since I've had one of those in Philadelphia or New York and I am wondering if the problem truly is regional differences in bread or might it be the American baking industry's switch in the 1970's from potassium iodate to potassium bromate -- which BTW interferes with the thyroid gland's uptake and retention of iodine.

[jmakinen]

So, what you basically are saying is that we should only allow one, true, pure variety of The Bagel to exist?

Putting it that way - yes - the variety is not in the basic process - but in the types of flours, add-ins, etc. I could well imagine there could be different 'tastes' and 'consistencies' depending on whose flour one used - coarse, fine - all-purpose, etc. Some Durum added - maybe some spelt - etc etc. Even maybe the yeast type and strength - sourdough type, etc.

And all that could then find proponents of somewhat different textures and 'chew' and what not - and add-ons such as poppy seeds, sesame - caraway/cumin - something else in the dough - one type is a bit sweet with blueberries, etc.

But the basic process is still a yeast-risen dough, boiling for some number of minutes, allowing to rise again - and then baking. Arnold's and Stockmann's and Dennis do NOT do that - I recall there was a bakery in Tallinn - Rita's? - that had the real thing. But so far I have not found any real bagels in Finland.

[AldenG]

I wouldn't say that bagels remain any longer "a Jewish thing" in the U.S. They're almost as universal as doughnuts. However, if they WERE still a Jewish thing, it shouldn't be surprising for jmakinen to find good ones in Charleston, SC. The Jewish presence and beneficial influence in the Savannah (GA) - Charleston - Atlanta triangle goes back nearly as far as it does in the New York City area, where it of course predates the present name of the city.

On edit:

In Wikipedia, I see that by 1800, South Carolina had 2000 Jews, more than any other state at that time.

Wikipedia: History of the Jews in Charleston

It describes Charleston as "the unofficial capital of North American Jewry until about 1830."

[AldenG]

Regarding the video, I would quote the first- and second-most-common last words of the redneck:

#2 Hey y'all, watch this!

and

#1 Hell, that don't look so hard!

[jmakinen]

it shouldn't be surprising for jmakinen to find good ones in Charleston, SC.

Yes - aware of 'Jewish' background in the Low Country - but ran into bagels only in Bruegger's which is now a national chain (started in VT if I recall - along with B&J). The last 20-25 years has seen the bagel work its way into all kinds of places in US but unfortunately a lot of them are the pure bread-type - eg the 6 pcs in plastic next to Wonder Bread. A number of places with a Deli counter have them - or with the bins with plastic doors.

The surprise is how the 'bread with a hole' sells - could be many just prefer 'bread' to a bagel - bagels do require teeth.

[AldenG]

I'll certainly concede that NYC is "the unofficial capital of North American bagelry since about . . . oh, uh, forEVvverrrrrrr."

Now I must go have one with cream cheese for lunch. While I still have good teeth, that is.

[jmakinen]

I'll certainly concede that NYC is "the unofficial capital of North American bagelry since about . . . oh, uh, forEVvverrrrrrr."

Since you say North America, I have heard that Montreal will give NY a run for its shekels re Bageldom

[Bavarian]

The funniest thing about all of this is that, in general, the idea that the US has any form of decent food causes mild amusement for most Europeans.

It's not that, IMO the "funny" thing is how people in general seem surprised when foodstuff "A" is not similar (if it indeed is available in some variety) to what they're used to have at home...

The only caveat I would make is that there seems to be a slightly different reaction to when people complain there isn't an authentic American/British foodstuff (eg. bagels in the current instance) as to when they complain there isn't an authentic Third World foodstuff (I know there have been comments here about the lack of a good curry or Chinese food in Finland). To me it seems to be one more example of "multiculturalism" in practice.

In theory, we're supposed to celebrate all cultures, but in practice, the Western natives are expected to make sacrificies for the Third World culture, and expected to shriek about how horrid those evil Americans and Brits are.

[jmakinen]

sammy wrote:
Mook wrote:
The funniest thing about all of this is that, in general, the idea that the US has any form of decent food causes mild amusement for most Europeans.


It's not that, IMO the "funny" thing is how people in general seem surprised when foodstuff "A" is not similar (if it indeed is available in some variety) to what they're used to have at home...

The only caveat I would make is that there seems to be a slightly different reaction to when people complain there isn't an authentic American/British foodstuff (eg. bagels in the current instance) as to when they complain there isn't an authentic Third World foodstuff (I know there have been comments here about the lack of a good curry or Chinese food in Finland). To me it seems to be one more example of "multiculturalism" in practice.

In theory, we're supposed to celebrate all cultures, but in practice, the Western natives are expected to make sacrificies for the Third World culture, and expected to shriek about how horrid those evil Americans and Brits are.

Please elaborate - I expect as much 'quality' from a 'sweet and sour chicken' or a 'Naan bread' as i do from a hot dog or a bagel or an order of 'fish and chips' or BBQ spare ribs and vice versa. The stuff hits the same 'taste buds'

[jmakinen]

Good video on bagels above - that's pretty much how I've done it - with reasonable success. Much will be dependent on what flours used - mixed or whatever. One thing I found was that some 'Barley Malt extract' in the boiling water really adds something. One chap here has suggested also NaHCO3 in the water - but I'm not going along with that as trying to avoid Na. For 'salt' one can also use the '70% less Na' Jozo now available.

[sammy]

Two short side-steps:

1.

The start of the soundtrack should appeal to sammy and tuulen, at least.

Was that flute piece C.P.E.Bach, or Telemann, or...? I didn't recognise it.

2. Speaking of curry I need to post a cracking Shahi Korma recipe here one of these days.

[tuulen]

Finland discovered pizza, but that could be forgotten if Finland finds REAL bagels festooned with lox and cream cheese.

If given a choice, I will go for a bagel with lox and cream cheese any day of the week.

Salmon (lohi) never tasted so good!

[Rob A.]

Was that flute piece C.P.E.Bach, or Telemann, or...? I didn't recognise

....sounds like Loeillet...but it's a bit soporific for my tastes...and I'm not sure which of the two...
...Now here's some flute music with a bit of "spunk" to it....