Lox, bagel and cream cheese

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Tiwaz
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by Tiwaz » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:46 am

jmakinen wrote: Agree completely - Chinese food in Helsinki is still not terribly good - but you can be fortunate you weren't here in 1970 when there was one BAD Chinese on Annankatu . same with pizza - Rodolfo was only pizza then - not very good (and hasn't improved!) - now we have some choice - and some are decent
By your definition not good. Again we see that world revolves around jmaki and his overinflated ego.
Food being not as good as it should be is not a question usually of adjusting to local tastes - it's for lack of knowledge and care and competition. Finns don't like soggy carrots and onions in a Chinese dish any more than people in Hong Kong - but they have had a limited chance to choose - fortunately matters improving the whole time. Etc etc
Yes it is question of adjusting. Start a restaurant and try to serve "genuine" Chinese or similar. You won't last for a year.

Oh wait! You already HAVE tried to go against Finnish preferences in past. AND FAILED! Doesn't this tell you something?

Finnish food has changed, but it has not been "revolutionized" as you appear to think. The basic preferences are strongly there, with little to no changes.

I myself might add Blair's Sudden Death to spice up my food. But nobody else I know does. For huge majority of population, some milder curry is alreay extremely hot and spicy.

Restaurants have had to scale down on their use of spices. Something your thick idiot skull apparently cannot get in.

Finns overwhelmingly do not want "original" Chinese or "real" bagels. They want Chinese and bagels which fit into their preferences. Which means for Chinese that it is scaled down to fit local taste better.
Not to mention having huge amount of their "delicacies" removed from the list. Or do you recall seeing chicken legs served anywhere?



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jmakinen
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by jmakinen » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:26 am

jmakinen wrote:
Agree completely - Chinese food in Helsinki is still not terribly good - but you can be fortunate you weren't here in 1970 when there was one BAD Chinese on Annankatu . same with pizza - Rodolfo was only pizza then - not very good (and hasn't improved!) - now we have some choice - and some are decent


By your definition not good. Again we see that world revolves around jmaki and his overinflated ego.

So it's you that doesn't give a crap what you are served and pay these clowns with bad food. Thanks.

Look - get out of your cocoon - you'll find out that Finnish 'preferences' have changed and changed and changed in the last 40 years - fortunately for the best as they develop - YES - DEVELOP! Go look at Eat.Fi - and so many reviews will tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you want to hear about some good Finnish food and ingredients - have a listen to the audio clip I posted above.

Please get over yourself!

AldenG
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by AldenG » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:26 am

Rob A. wrote:
AldenG wrote:
Rob A. wrote:at the rather modestly named restaurant..."Ivar's Acres of Clams"....:D]
Gee, I wonder where you could have been. :wink:
Three guesses!! The first two don't count...:D And hard to believe Ivar has been gone for 25 years now...he was quite the Northwest "institution" in his day....:D

I see he was even elected Seattle Port Commissioner ...for a year just before he died... Apparently he wasn't serious about taking on the job, but his "prank" resulted in him being elected.... I'm sure the employees didn't mind, probably quite a "fun" year for them... :D

The draw south was the Picasso exhibit...
I only "found" Seattle and Portland and the parts around them in something like 2000. And it's a shame because I've never really felt more at home anywhere else. The closest #2, oddly, has been Helsinki. I've been to Vancouver (on that first trip) but only for an evening, so all I can really say is that it felt rather European or Australian -- other words for Canadian, in a way. Halifax has much of that same quality to me. The food was enjoyably different from American seafood in both cities.

The biggest draw of the PNW for me, as probably for most, is the natural splendor. (The abundance of intelligent talk radio certainly doesn't hurt.) Although the types of trees are similar to Finland, the scale of them is entirely different. And of course there are the mountains and the rugged coasts, also a question of scale compared to Finland. On natural beauty and variety, the PNW comes out ahead, and that presumably includes Vancouver. But all things taken together, I think I still prefer Finland. Now if we could only get past this damned recession and get the real estate market moving again...

Meanwhile I make do with my bagels, cream cheese, and Abba herring from Ikea.

I just got back from Portland about a week ago. I had some photos in a show there and wanted to go to the opening. Despite the unpromising time of year (especially for my specialty of infrared photography), I ended up coming home with more photographic booty.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

jmakinen
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by jmakinen » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:51 am

Oh wait! You already HAVE tried to go against Finnish preferences in past. AND FAILED! Doesn't this tell you something?
Yeah - 40 years ago! And what I tried to import are now BIG HITS - eg 'Real Pasta' (I was told then that Finns didn't need any real pasta - there was plenty of Finnish wheat in Pohjanmaa - one of the biggest culinary jokes - probably ever - "Finnish preferences" - total nonsense - try catching your shadow)

Also was told that Finns don't need olive oil, tomato paste - etc etc etc - the list goes on - almost as long as the names of food on your local City Market's shelves

So please give your obstinance to change and development a rest!

CH
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by CH » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:59 am

Tiwaz wrote:Or do you recall seeing chicken legs served anywhere?
Actually, Ravintola China on Annankatu in Helsinki has chicken legs, but I haven't seen them anywhere else. I just had to try, and they were really good (but then I love eating cartilage and skin and other stuff that people leave on the plate). But yeah, I do agree... the Chinese restaurants serve dumbed down versions for the non-adventurous palates. I mean, some of the tastes are there like black bean sauce, but the actual dishes are a far cry from what I ate in restaurants in China.

I loved Cantonese cuisine (in China), and would be extatic if I could find something like that here. I think it would work with Finnish tastes, as it is very "clean" and mild, but on the other hand some of the tastes were so different that my taste buds were totally thrown out of the loop (I'm a native Finn). I think that as more and more Finns travel to China there might be enough interest for a restaurant that would actually have good authentic dishes, but for the standard neighborhood Chinese restaurant I think most just want the cheap buffé style served generic slop.

jmakinen
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by jmakinen » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:19 pm

the Chinese restaurants serve dumbed down versions for the non-adventurous palates. I mean, some of the tastes are there like black bean sauce, but the actual dishes are a far cry from what I ate in restaurants in China.
I believe you would be mostly talking about easing up on the 'hot spiciness' - it's hard to dumb down the taste of crisp, fresh vegetables other than by cooking them to mush - which is more a question of not knowing how to cook. The same with using good meat and not old soles collected from shoemakers.

The 'far cry' is mostly just about culinary skills. I recall meeting an Indonesian on a train in NL - he said he was a cook in an Indonesian restaurant in Amsterdam. As I'm interested in food, I started to ask him some questions - he said he didn't know anything - he was a carpenter by trade - and the Dutch hired him because he looked Indonesian - I wonder how many Chinese cooks in Finland were plumbers or bus drivers in China :P

A number of Chinese restaurants now ask you what your 'Scoville preference' is - and in fact that happens all over the world in many places - or they warn on the menu with 1-2-3 chili pepper pictures.

In any case the scene has gotten dramatically better than years ago - just look at the restaurant people now buying authentic ingredients on Hämeenkatu for their restaurants - or see them at Heino on the 'ethnic' aisles - that is all new in the last 15-20 years.

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sinikala
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by sinikala » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:34 pm

jmakinen wrote:Go look at Eat.Fi - and so many reviews will tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Many of the comments on eat.fi support Titwaz's argument, not yours.

Most of the reviews I read make me wonder if I've been in the same restaurants (and I contributed listings for most of the restaurants for Pori - so I am very much a supporter of Eat.fi). I just wonder at the quality of the comments left there, and how many are left by genuine customers and how many are left by owners (and their mates) looking to promote their businesses.
CH wrote:for the standard neighborhood Chinese restaurant I think most just want the cheap buffé style served generic slop.
I think that holds true for many of those posting comments on eat.fi.
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jmakinen
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by jmakinen » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:25 pm

Many of the comments on eat.fi support Titwaz's argument, not yours.

Most of the reviews I read make me wonder if I've been in the same restaurants (and I contributed listings for most of the restaurants for Pori - so I am very much a supporter of Eat.fi). I just wonder at the quality of the comments left there, and how many are left by genuine customers and how many are left by owners (and their mates) looking to promote their businesses.
My argument is not that there aren't 'ethnic' restaurants easing up mostly on spicy hot - but that the situation is DRAMATICALLY changed from years ago - and changing all the time. 'Finnish' preferences have developed tremendously. You could probably been arrested by Kekkonen's police if they caught you with a chili in 1970.

No FINN would ever eat today the spaghetti they were manufacturing and selling EXCLUSIVELY - those knowing Finland for only the last 10-15 even 20 years will have no idea what I'm talking about, referring to - or realizing what a long path the Finns have traveled in these years.

As for Eat.Fi - one will note that the reviews giving plus points are for achieving the international standards of those dishes - you will not find raves for Kebab pizzas - nor Sweet and Sour HK Sininen!

As for restaurants in Pori - yaakk - I had a business there once and the best thing about Pori was the bus that left for Helsinki at 1400.

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sinikala
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by sinikala » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:04 pm

jmakinen wrote:No FINN would ever eat today the spaghetti they were manufacturing and selling EXCLUSIVELY - those knowing Finland for only the last 10-15 even 20 years will have no idea what I'm talking about, referring to - or realizing what a long path the Finns have traveled in these years.
Not true. Whilst Barilla and DeCecco can be found in most stores, most of the pasta section shelf space is occupied by low quality, domestic pasta which is close to inedible - Myllyn Paras and Torino to name but two

http://www.torino.fi/www/page/1912
http://www.myllynparas.fi/portal/suomi/ ... atuotteet/

If there was no demand for that crap it wouldn't be on the shelves, would it?

The one which I find most interesting is the ready chopped spaghetti, I assume this is for use to be added to soups , because ready chopped sort of defeats the object of the exercise.
jmakinen wrote:As for restaurants in Pori - yaakk - I had a business there once and the best thing about Pori was the bus that left for Helsinki at 1400.
Tell me something I don't know. And how can this be? Considering that Finland is a today haven for gourmands?
No, the majority here know what they like: cheap and cheerful. Infact forget cheerful - they like cheap.

EOM
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AldenG
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by AldenG » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:55 pm

This whole thing about Finnish spaghetti (who knew?) and the licensing office has been eye-opening for me. I remember Kekkonen's funeral and did live under Eila Kännö but never experienced the full Kekkonen-era Finland.

I can almost understand today's strict governmental stranglehold on vitamin C and Icelandic kelp tablets and similar threats to public health and national security, but bans on foreign spaghetti must have been truly bizarro-world. Still, they did keep Finland safe into the modern era. Swedish pasta would have been bad enough, but just think what chaos might have erupted if Finns had been exposed to Italian pasta. Oh, the degeneracy! The volubility! The . . . the . . . the talking with hands that might have infected the culture.

It's a good thing the boys at Customs were trained and vigilant.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

EP
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by EP » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:59 pm

The one which I find most interesting is the ready chopped spaghetti, I assume this is for use to be added to soups , because ready chopped sort of defeats the object of the exercise.
When that first came to stores 30 years ago it had a name Raketti Spagetti. With pictures of space ships and UFOs. So, it was meant for children. I don´t know what it is called nowadays.

AldenG
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by AldenG » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:13 pm

EP wrote: When that first came to stores 30 years ago it had a name Raketti Spagetti. With pictures of space ships and UFOs. So, it was meant for children. I don´t know what it is called nowadays.
Now I really feel foolish! I always thought it was for rocket scientists like me.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

AldenG
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by AldenG » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:25 pm

AldenG wrote:just think what chaos might have erupted if Finns had been exposed to Italian pasta. Oh, the degeneracy! The volubility! The . . . the . . . the talking with hands that might have infected the culture.

It's a good thing the boys at Customs were trained and vigilant.
Still, you know, one thinks that the staid and neutral, indeed unimpeachable, Swiss spaghetti ought to have been acceptable even at the height of the Cold War.

As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

AldenG
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by AldenG » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:34 pm

What a difference 50 years and global corporatism have made:

As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

Rob A.
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Re: Lox, bagel and cream cheese

Post by Rob A. » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:00 pm

AldenG wrote:I only "found" Seattle and Portland and the parts around them in something like 2000. And it's a shame because I've never really felt more at home anywhere else. The closest #2, oddly, has been Helsinki. I've been to Vancouver (on that first trip) but only for an evening, so all I can really say is that it felt rather European or Australian -- other words for Canadian, in a way. Halifax has much of that same quality to me. The food was enjoyably different from American seafood in both cities.
I used to go to Seattle a lot....but I think my previous visit must have been at least ten years ago.... It still felt much the same....there is a relaxed, fresh quality to the place that is difficult to describe.... There seems to be a strong, cohesive community spirit, which is probably why they are able to pull of things like getting something as incredible as the Picasso Exhibit at the Seattle Art gallery....

Seattle is definitely a "northern" city... a "blue" city in one of the "blue" states... .and the old Scandinavian influence is still there....

Interestingly...at least to me, anyway, is that Seattle City Light...the electricity supplier, is still owned by the citizens despite great attempts over the years to wrest it away by the "Gordon Gekkos" of the world...and it was actually established eons ago by a Canadian from Ontario...:D


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