Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

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SimonBao
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Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by SimonBao » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:55 am

I've read about Finnish fruit wines and would like to know if American fruit wines are similar, and could reasonably substitute for them. No Finnish wines are sold in Pennsylvania, but we have American fruit wines made from apple and strawberry. I saw no mention of Finnish wines made from blackberries, cherries, or elderberries, but we also have those as well. Might those be reasonable substitutes? Do Finns themselves actually drink those wines, or are those a novelty item sold to tourists?



Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

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rinso
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by rinso » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:39 am

I have no idea about the quality of American berry wines. In many grape wine producing countries it is forbidden to add sugar to the mix. Since berries contain much more acid than grapes, you have to dilute the mix further to get a drinkable wine. But this also reduces the alcohol content. Often a balance must be found between taste and strength. Which almost never leads to a nice product. In Finland however you can add sugar and therefore create the perfect balance.
And the quality of Finnish berries is very good. Due to the long and sunny days in summer they contain lots of sugar and flavour.

I never seen cherry wines in Finland (other than chemical flavoured stuff) but the other types are quite common. Especially white and black currant are frequently used.

Rosamunda
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Rosamunda » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:45 am

http://www.mustilaviini.fi/

Fruit wines are increasingly used in Finnish gastronomy (some of the top restaurants in the big cities and celebrity chefs etc) so eventually they will be re-discovered by the masses. There are problems associated with their widespread commercialisation since ALKO has a state monopoly on the sale of alcohol to the general public and I doubt if they want to start buying/selling from micro wineries in remote parts of the country!!!

Gooseberry is another berry used for making wine. Elderberry bushes are grown commercially in Finland but the flowers are used rather than the berries. I'm afraid the birds/deer whatever seem to eat the berries on mine before I even notice I have any.

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rinso
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by rinso » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:45 pm

since ALKO has a state monopoly on the sale of alcohol to the general public and I doubt if they want to start buying/selling from micro wineries in remote parts of the country!!!
Main problem is that the big distillers who also produce/import (chemical) fruit wines, don't want competition.
The last few years more and more berry wine producers are kicked out of the alko shops, even a few of the big ones lost their place on the shelves.

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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Upphew » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:54 pm

rinso wrote:
since ALKO has a state monopoly on the sale of alcohol to the general public and I doubt if they want to start buying/selling from micro wineries in remote parts of the country!!!
Main problem is that the big distillers who also produce/import (chemical) fruit wines, don't want competition.
The last few years more and more berry wine producers are kicked out of the alko shops, even a few of the big ones lost their place on the shelves.
Yet it wouldn't cost much for Alko to put them in their sale-to-order selection with note that availability might change...

edit. http://www.viinitilat.net/ and if there is something interesting there you can ask for the quote from alko [email protected] as there seem be quite dismal selection in sale-to-order.. which you can do online now! Sadly the pick up points are all in HEV.
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debezenL
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by debezenL » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:25 am

I'm not sure if American wines could substitute Finnish fruit wines but I do enjoy Finnish wines so much they are really fine wine. I personally prefer fruit wines specially the Lappish Hag’s Love Potion it's a traditional home brewed Finnish fruit wine made from blueberries which is really good. It is ferment naturally with wild yeast present on the skin. If I were you,next time you’re out wine shopping, consider buying fruit wines.

flora66
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by flora66 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:00 pm

I read somewhere (here?) that fruit wines should be drunk young because they don't age in the bottle as do quality grape wines. Assuming this to be true, does it also mean that the secondary fermentation time can also be reduced? Bottom line question.... how long for secondary ferment for finnish fruit wine?

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Hpslm
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Hpslm » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:16 pm

SimonBao wrote:Do Finns themselves actually drink those wines, or are those a novelty item sold to tourists?
I (native, around 30) don't know anyone who likes to drink them and certainly not anyone who actually buys them instead of real wines. In my personal opinion the whole selection of 'wine' word is a bit unfortunate as it creates a comparison of grape wines and other fruit juices with alcohol. Were they sold with some other product name, they could live more with their own merits.

Thus in reference to Penelope's opinion I would present a counter-opinion that the number one problem with their widespread commercialisation is that the product is inferior to wine. Where they any good, they would sell more, the world is not that unjust.

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rinso
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by rinso » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:26 pm

Hpslm wrote: that the product is inferior to wine. Where they any good, they would sell more, the world is not that unjust.
There are good, mediocre and bad fruit wines.
The good ones are certainly in quality comparable with grape wines. But they are indeed a different product. They have their own taste.
I visited more than half of the berry wine producers in Finland and tested their products. Some were indeed excellent.

That the sales is problematic is due to the regulations and Alko's monopoly, not due to the quality.
The berry wines can only be sold at the place of production and at Alko's. If Alko is not interested, there are hardly any sales. And Alko's opinion is strongly influenced by lobbying of some (chemical) wine producers.

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Hpslm
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Hpslm » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:58 pm

rinso wrote: There are good, mediocre and bad fruit wines.
The good ones are certainly in quality comparable with grape wines. But they are indeed a different product. They have their own taste.
I visited more than half of the berry wine producers in Finland and tested their products. Some were indeed excellent.
That the sales is problematic is due to the regulations and Alko's monopoly, not due to the quality.
I am sure that nowadays the quality in workmanship is at the minimum adequate. I meant by inferior that grape wine tastes like wine to me and the others taste like juices. It is okay to me that Cel-Ray doesn't have shelf-space in local K-market but Pepsi does even if it is frigging well made celery soft drink. :] Everytime along the years that I have been "okay, let's try if they have changed for the better" the answer is "well, it is not terrible but... "

The fact that a certain fruit so much dominates the world wine market is most likely at least partly due it being the best one for the process. As tastes are individual and wines a learned taste, I am not saying that your findings are false. But the sales are problematic also because people are uninterested.
rinso wrote: The berry wines can only be sold at the place of production and at Alko's. If Alko is not interested, there are hardly any sales. And Alko's opinion is strongly influenced by lobbying of some (chemical) wine producers.
Yes, but at the very best that's only a half-truth. I do agree that it can be an egg and chicken problem and it is stupid that Finnish production is artificially constricted like that. The other side is that there are a lot of people who don't want to buy and/or drink fruit wines.

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rinso
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by rinso » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:03 am

I meant by inferior that grape wine tastes like wine to me and the others taste like juices.
You obvious have not tasted the real good ones then.
I know for a fact that several Finnish berry wines did win medals at foreign wine competitions amid grape wines.
because people are uninterested
This also has to do with price. Due to the restrictions on production and sales, Finnish berry wines are often more expensive than a medium quality grape wine. If you have to pay more and drive into the countryside to the vineyard, it is easy to make an other choice.

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Hpslm
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Hpslm » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:26 pm

rinso wrote: You obvious have not tasted the real good ones then.
I know for a fact that several Finnish berry wines did win medals at foreign wine competitions amid grape wines.
With all due respect I lack your convinction that it is only due to misfortune in my selection process that I have not come like fruit wines.
Out of curiosity, what competitions?
rinso wrote: This also has to do with price. Due to the restrictions on production and sales, Finnish berry wines are often more expensive than a medium quality grape wine. If you have to pay more and drive into the countryside to the vineyard, it is easy to make an other choice.
Well, yes, but that doesn't explain why I bring wines along with me from France/Germany. That's certainly more effort and more expensive than going on relying on ALKO's selection. I am just a bit allergic to the assertion that it is everything but the taste that's keeping fruit wines from my table.

But I am honestly happy that you have found fruit wines that you like. But if we were talking about banana wines, my personal point of view would still stand. I couldn't see them as replacement that I would want to make.

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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Upphew » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:46 pm

Hpslm wrote:
rinso wrote: This also has to do with price. Due to the restrictions on production and sales, Finnish berry wines are often more expensive than a medium quality grape wine. If you have to pay more and drive into the countryside to the vineyard, it is easy to make an other choice.
Well, yes, but that doesn't explain why I bring wines along with me from France/Germany. That's certainly more effort and more expensive than going on relying on ALKO's selection. I am just a bit allergic to the assertion that it is everything but the taste that's keeping fruit wines from my table.
Wut??! You hop on the plane or car with the intention to get some wine? Or you travel anyways and why not bring some wines... compare it to specifically going to a winery vs. going to Prisma/CM and pop to Alko while you are there.
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sheila762
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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by sheila762 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:37 am

I know that you do not find grapes all over Finland, and some wine is being made, privately and/or industrially. Those finnish "wines" are made of almost any fruits that one may pick in Finland - mostly berries, but cherries too, and apples. For the little I tasted, those wines were somewhat too sweet, but as it was family production, I will assume that the next door neighbours would make it less sweet, and so would the "wine farms" which, I understand, do exist in Southern Finland.
My questions would be: where can I find some industrially produced finnish fruit wine? Any farms that I could browse on the net and see in reality? What are, in the opinion of my esteemed readership, the best wines I could get next time I go?
Thank you

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Re: Finnish Fruit Wines - Can American Wines Substitute?

Post by Upphew » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:33 pm

sheila762 wrote:My questions would be: where can I find some industrially produced finnish fruit wine? Any farms that I could browse on the net and see in reality? What are, in the opinion of my esteemed readership, the best wines I could get next time I go?
Thank you
http://www.viinitilat.net/

No idea about the quality or which is best, as those have hard time getting their produce to the Alko... and Alko is the only place you get to buy anything over 5,6% abv.
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