National History Day Reasearch on Finland in World War II

[abare]

Helly my name is Alex and i am working on a National History Day project on Finland in World War II and have recently advanced to the national level of the competition to be held near Washington D.C. representing my school in Iowa. I am wondering if there is any Finnish historian or some one who majored in Finnish history or is in any other way reliable (for bibliographical purposes) who could answer these questions I have about Finland in World War two in relation to this year's theme, "Debate and Diplomacy: Successes, Failures and Consequences in History".

1. What was the strategic purpose of the Soviet Union requesting the cession of islands in the Gulf of Finland in the Moscow Peace Agreement after the Winter War? What are the names of these islands specifically, and where can I find pictures of them?
2. Why did Germany begin attacking Finland on Suursaari Island marking the beginning of the Lapland War? Weren't evacuations of German troops going peacefully? What may have been a reason for diplomacy failing?
3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?
4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

Thank you for your time!
Kiitos!!
-Alex

[Jukka Aho]

I am wondering if there is any Finnish historian or some one who majored in Finnish history or is in any other way reliable (for bibliographical purposes) who could answer these questions I have about Finland in World War two in relation to this year's theme, "Debate and Diplomacy: Successes, Failures and Consequences in History".

You could post the same questions also to these forums:

• Tiede.fi – Historia, kulttuurit ja yhteiskunta
• Historianurkkaus (either Suomen ja Skandinavian historia or Sotahistoria)

(Note: You can use Google Translate to your advantage, but don’t use it for posting; it’s not good enough for that. Post in English.)

[Upphew]

Helly my name is Alex and i am working on a National History Day project on Finland in World War II and have recently advanced to the national level of the competition to be held near Washington D.C. representing my school in Iowa. I am wondering if there is any Finnish historian or some one who majored in Finnish history or is in any other way reliable (for bibliographical purposes) who could answer these questions I have about Finland in World War two in relation to this year's theme, "Debate and Diplomacy: Successes, Failures and Consequences in History".

1. What was the strategic purpose of the Soviet Union requesting the cession of islands in the Gulf of Finland in the Moscow Peace Agreement after the Winter War? What are the names of these islands specifically, and where can I find pictures of them?
2. Why did Germany begin attacking Finland on Suursaari Island marking the beginning of the Lapland War? Weren't evacuations of German troops going peacefully? What may have been a reason for diplomacy failing?
3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?
4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

I'm not someone you should quote on anything, but here are some answers/points...

1. If you look at the map, the islands can be used quite handily to choke the sea lanes to St Petersburg, then Leningrad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Peace_Treaty
2. German evacuations were going peacefully, but they certainly didn't want to let Soviets to sail freely into Baltic sea. The Lapland war started mainly as the Soviets wanted to see some effort... makes sense to make someone else waste their blood in fighting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapland_War
3. Probably same way as getting beaten by a thug solves the dispute about lunch money...

[Pursuivant]

1. What was the strategic purpose of the Soviet Union requesting the cession of islands in the Gulf of Finland in the Moscow Peace Agreement after the Winter War?

Basically. they sit in the middle of the gulf controlling entry to Leningrad.

What are the names of these islands specifically, and where can I find pictures of them?

The main ones are Lavansaari, Seiskari, Suursaari, Tytärsaari, theres a copuple of skerries too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavansaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seskar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suursaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyt%C3%A4rsaari
Try in different languages, theres maps and pictures in the different versions.

2. Why did Germany begin attacking Finland on Suursaari Island marking the beginning of the Lapland War? Weren't evacuations of German troops going peacefully? What may have been a reason for diplomacy failing?

The question was not of "diplomacy failing" - The Allied Control Commission demanded it as a part of the armistice requirements. Basically, the Russians told the Finns if the phony war continues the Russians will come and throw out the Germans (and stay). Suursaari then again was for Germans to secure a base to keep the Soviet navy bagged in the gulf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tanne_Ost

3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?

Do you mean disputes within Finland, with Soviet Union or what?

4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

Well, the military budget was debated heatedly in the 30's. The "doves" won. There was no money in recession to put in arms which then showed as lack of materiel. On the other issues, a lot of debates. but really not so much in public as it was war after all and censorship. Basically the politicians were tightroping:
Winter War - USSR= Enemy, Germany allied with USSR (Ribbentrop protocols), little help from the Allies
Interim peace = Germany attacks Allies, makes friendly gestures. USSR assists Germany and invades Baltics. Finns get worried as hell.
Continuation War = USSR= Enemy, help from Germans
Lapland War = kick out Germans without USSR "help"
Danger Years = arms cache scandal, keeping USSR happy, no help from Allies as Roosevelt and Churchill had sold East Europe to Stalin honoring the deal made with Hitler
Cold War = asskissing continues, no Marshall Aid but no "Democratic Republic" either.

[Rip]

4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

After the wars? How long time span is your project supposed to cover? (Yes, some wanted to have Soviet satellite like the East/East-Central countries were)

Regarding debate during the war, couple of things you'd probably want to cover if you can dig suitable sources:
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauhanoppositio
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmenkymm ... jelm%C3%A4

(use Google translate to get the idea)

[onkko]

disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets?

Well if you ask from me ill say that fking thief should pay back our money and give back our land.
But i know thats not possible withouth succesfull war what i dont want and im not so keen to forcibly remove russians from our land so ill say fck you and keep it just let us live in peace.

[CH]

The guys to ask would probably be these ones: Maanpuolustuskorkeakoulu, Sotahistorian laitos (the url is ridiculously long, so dunno if it will work, but http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi > Maanpuolustuskorkeakoulu > Laitokset > Sotahistorian laitos).

Found this link with lots of links to further information: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/mplinkit/suomi.htm

[Pursuivant]

Reading wikipedia through first would be a good start

[abare]

Reading wikipedia through first would be a good start

Unfortunataly, Wikipedia makes for a very bad bibliography and judges tend to dislike the website because anyone can put anything on it and it may not always be exact, so we only use it to link us to more trustworthy sources.

[jahasjahas]

I am wondering if there is any Finnish historian or some one who majored in Finnish history or is in any other way reliable (for bibliographical purposes)

Well if you ask from me ill say that fking thief...

You should probably check this guy's credentials before quoting him.

[Rob A.]

1. What was the strategic purpose of the Soviet Union requesting the cession of islands in the Gulf of Finland in the Moscow Peace Agreement after the Winter War?

Basically. they sit in the middle of the gulf controlling entry to Leningrad.

What are the names of these islands specifically, and where can I find pictures of them?

The main ones are Lavansaari, Seiskari, Suursaari, Tytärsaari, theres a copuple of skerries too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavansaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seskar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suursaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyt%C3%A4rsaari
Try in different languages, theres maps and pictures in the different versions.

2. Why did Germany begin attacking Finland on Suursaari Island marking the beginning of the Lapland War? Weren't evacuations of German troops going peacefully? What may have been a reason for diplomacy failing?

The question was not of "diplomacy failing" - The Allied Control Commission demanded it as a part of the armistice requirements. Basically, the Russians told the Finns if the phony war continues the Russians will come and throw out the Germans (and stay). Suursaari then again was for Germans to secure a base to keep the Soviet navy bagged in the gulf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tanne_Ost

3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?

Do you mean disputes within Finland, with Soviet Union or what?

4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

Well, the military budget was debated heatedly in the 30's. The "doves" won. There was no money in recession to put in arms which then showed as lack of materiel. On the other issues, a lot of debates. but really not so much in public as it was war after all and censorship. Basically the politicians were tightroping:
Winter War - USSR= Enemy, Germany allied with USSR (Ribbentrop protocols), little help from the Allies
Interim peace = Germany attacks Allies, makes friendly gestures. USSR assists Germany and invades Baltics. Finns get worried as hell.
Continuation War = USSR= Enemy, help from Germans
Lapland War = kick out Germans without USSR "help"
Danger Years = arms cache scandal, keeping USSR happy, no help from Allies as Roosevelt and Churchill had sold East Europe to Stalin honoring the deal made with Hitler
Cold War = asskissing continues, no Marshall Aid but no "Democratic Republic" either.

This is a pretty good analysis....this has been my understanding for many years.... I don't think you will find many "serious" historians would have a much different interpretation.....

The main thing to always keep in mind when analyzing Finland's history through the last century is that the main problem was the Soviet Union..... How to keep them "out"... Nazi Germany was the minor issue from Finland's perspective...

Though I think modern Finns are a little too critical of Kekkonen....maybe a little more "distance in time" is required before we can get more objective view of his accomplishments....

I also like Upphew's comment:

"3. Probably same way as getting beaten by a thug solves the dispute about lunch money..."

...and remember the old adage:

"Warfare is simply diplomacy by other means."....

[abare]

I am wondering if there is any Finnish historian or some one who majored in Finnish history or is in any other way reliable (for bibliographical purposes) who could answer these questions I have about Finland in World War two in relation to this year's theme, "Debate and Diplomacy: Successes, Failures and Consequences in History".

You could post the same questions also to these forums:

• Tiede.fi – Historia, kulttuurit ja yhteiskunta
• Historianurkkaus (either Suomen ja Skandinavian historia or Sotahistoria)

(Note: You can use Google Translate to your advantage, but don’t use it for posting; it’s not good enough for that. Post in English.)

Thank you! I will try these and see how they work. Historianurkkas wont load the registration stuff correctly, so I'll have to try that one later.

[abare]

1. What was the strategic purpose of the Soviet Union requesting the cession of islands in the Gulf of Finland in the Moscow Peace Agreement after the Winter War?

Basically. they sit in the middle of the gulf controlling entry to Leningrad.

What are the names of these islands specifically, and where can I find pictures of them?

The main ones are Lavansaari, Seiskari, Suursaari, Tytärsaari, theres a copuple of skerries too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavansaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seskar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suursaari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyt%C3%A4rsaari
Try in different languages, theres maps and pictures in the different versions.

2. Why did Germany begin attacking Finland on Suursaari Island marking the beginning of the Lapland War? Weren't evacuations of German troops going peacefully? What may have been a reason for diplomacy failing?

The question was not of "diplomacy failing" - The Allied Control Commission demanded it as a part of the armistice requirements. Basically, the Russians told the Finns if the phony war continues the Russians will come and throw out the Germans (and stay). Suursaari then again was for Germans to secure a base to keep the Soviet navy bagged in the gulf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tanne_Ost

3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?

Do you mean disputes within Finland, with Soviet Union or what?

4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

Well, the military budget was debated heatedly in the 30's. The "doves" won. There was no money in recession to put in arms which then showed as lack of materiel. On the other issues, a lot of debates. but really not so much in public as it was war after all and censorship. Basically the politicians were tightroping:
Winter War - USSR= Enemy, Germany allied with USSR (Ribbentrop protocols), little help from the Allies
Interim peace = Germany attacks Allies, makes friendly gestures. USSR assists Germany and invades Baltics. Finns get worried as hell.
Continuation War = USSR= Enemy, help from Germans
Lapland War = kick out Germans without USSR "help"
Danger Years = arms cache scandal, keeping USSR happy, no help from Allies as Roosevelt and Churchill had sold East Europe to Stalin honoring the deal made with Hitler
Cold War = asskissing continues, no Marshall Aid but no "Democratic Republic" either.

Thank you very much! The information will be very helpful!
Although I can't use Wikipedia, I can use Wikipedia's bibliography to link me to other sources, especially the sources on the Finnish Wikipedia.

[abare]

3. Did the Wars Finland fought in World War Two solve any disputes that they had before the territorial demands with the Soviets? How so?
Do you mean disputes within Finland, with Soviet Union or what?

Sorry, I meant both internal disputes amongst Finns, and other disagreements with the Soviet Union besides territorial demands.

[abare]

4. What were some major debates in Finland bafore, during, and after the wars?

After the wars? How long time span is your project supposed to cover? (Yes, some wanted to have Soviet satellite like the East/East-Central countries were)

Well, the project itself spans over only the war years, however judges want you to put your project in historical context, so its good to know about everything relating the the wars that led up to it and things after the wars. Debates that were occuring in Finland from around 1900 up until the war especcially involving political and military issues would be good, and debates involving the wars themselves in post war years as well up until present.