Best pizza flour

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harryc
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Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:45 pm

I've been a pizza-eater since a pipsqueak in an Italian neighborhood and tried most of the world's famous ones.

I've tried to duplicate without a hell of a lot of success. But now had a really great pizza at Settebello in Las Vegas -- and they told their secret - using a double zero soft wheat from Italy (Caputo) - the crust was both chewy and crisp.

Has anyone found a flour on Finnish shelves that would be 'double zero soft?' I asked the flour people at Rainbow and have tried to call the Sunnuntai folks but it always seems to be at the wrong time.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2 ... dough.html

also:

"Tipo 00

These Italian Flours are also called "dopio zero", meaning "double zero."

They are the softest, finest, Italian flours; they are very finely ground like a fine powder and are very white. They have the most refinement done to them and the least fibre remaining.

Every mill in Italy makes several different kinds of Type 00, as flour in this category can be milled from hard wheat (durum wheat) or soft wheat.

The protein will range between 7.4 (for the soft wheat flours, often labelled "grano tenero") and 11 % (for the hard wheat flours, "grano duro"), but generally it is no higher than 9 to 9.5%. Consequently, at bakeries they are often blended with stronger flours for bread making.

The "grano tenero" flours in this category are more in the range of "cake flour" in terms of protein content. They will not create much gluten.

If you are using a Tipo 00 flour for pasta, you want to make sure that the one you are using was milled from hard wheat."



Best pizza flour

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Jukka Aho
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by Jukka Aho » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:25 pm

harryc wrote:Has anyone found a flour on Finnish shelves that would be 'double zero soft?' I asked the flour people at Rainbow and have tried to call the Sunnuntai folks but it always seems to be at the wrong time.
These Turku-based guys import straight from Italy and deliver by mail. They seem to have several Italian flour types available with the "double zero" designation printed on the bag:

http://www.italianherkut.fi/fi/59-jauhot
znark


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:28 pm

ok - thanks - will give it a shot


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:52 am

Most likely e.g. Stockmann has 00 wheat flour, maybe also even larger supermarkets, as such it's quite a conventional item.


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:27 am

Most likely e.g. Stockmann has 00 wheat flour, maybe also even larger supermarkets, as such it's quite a conventional item.
There are no Finnish flours MARKED 00 on all the supermarket shelves I've checked. The Rainbow 'jauho folks said - yes, it's a conventional term in Europe but unfortunately not used in Finland.

Also if you check net for '00 jauho' you get right and wrong comments. What seems to be not known by many is that 'Tipo 00' is not a sufficient designation - it must also be 'soft' - grano tenero. The 00 that doesn't work is 'grano duro' - hard - that's used for pasta.

Anyhow - it looks like those 'paesans' in Turku have the right stuff - and price reasonable - so giving it a try.


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:17 am

'00' designation refers to the coarseness of the grind, so as such doesn't determine its suitability for any given purpose. Possibly the wheat used in Finnish brands is different from those grown in the Mediterranean, which would make it impossible to get a local variety with the same qualities.


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:07 pm

00' designation refers to the coarseness of the grind, so as such doesn't determine its suitability for any given purpose.
I'm going to be very sure not to buy from any bakery you start :lol: The coarseness or fineness of a wheat grain flour is one of the MOST important properties of a flour in determining what it's used for!! The other is the amount of gluten - that's what creates the 'chewiness' of a bread. There are others but my understanding is that these two are the main determinants.


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:09 pm

harryc wrote:
00' designation refers to the coarseness of the grind, so as such doesn't determine its suitability for any given purpose.
I'm going to be very sure not to buy from any bakery you start :lol: The coarseness or fineness of a wheat grain flour is one of the MOST important properties of a flour in determining what it's used for!! The other is the amount of gluten - that's what creates the 'chewiness' of a bread. There are others but my understanding is that these two are the main determinants.
As you said yourself, it's ONE of the properties, meaning that just by looking at '00' you may or may not get a suitable flour.


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:39 pm

C'mon - please read the whole post I wrote --

I am explicitly saying that the fineness of the grain is ONE characteristic - and without dropping even a comma - I say the OTHER is the degree of softness/hardness (basically the amount of gluten).

I'm still not coming to buy your products because your original message was that '00' had no meaning for suitability! :)


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:24 am

harryc wrote:I'm still not coming to buy your products because your original message was that '00' had no meaning for suitability! :)
No, the quote below is what I wrote. '00' designation really does not determine the flour's suitability for any given purpose, it has relevance, yes, but not on its own ("as such").
FinnGuyHelsinki wrote: '00' designation refers to the coarseness of the grind, so as such doesn't determine its suitability for any given purpose.


AldenG
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by AldenG » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:37 am

While we're still on the subject, didn't Gershwin write a song "Irascible You" or something like that?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:55 am

'00' designation really does not determine the flour's suitability for any given purpose, it has relevance, yes, but not on its own ("as such").

"As such" only means in the 'exact sense of the word (expression) - it has nothing to do with something being necessary and sufficient - and therefore does not allow an escape valve for you to squiggle out of. :) - the English language here is quite precise.

Please just let it go - the fineness or the coarseness is indeed a major factor in how a flour 'behaves' - and no one ever said it was the ONLY factor.


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:01 pm

harryc wrote:no one ever said it was the ONLY factor.
That's right, yet you claimed that I did.


harryc
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by harryc » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:58 pm

OK - let's leave it at:

I think you did - you think you didn't

:? :)


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sinikala
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Re: Best pizza flour

Post by sinikala » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:11 pm

harryc wrote:OK - let's leave it at:

I think you did - you think you didn't

:? :)
He didn't.

I think this is the stuff my wife uses.

http://www.myllynparas.fi/suomi/resepti ... izzapohja/

Recently she made a big batch of dough, cooked some on the day she made it after proving for a couple of hours, the rest sat in the fridge for an extra 24 hours and was a way better base. I think live yeast works better than dried and our oven is pretty lousy compared to a forno a legna... thinking about it there are loads of things extra to the grade of the flour which are going to let you down.

Not related to the thread, credentials / best pizza...
thin crust - Pepe's in New Haven http://pepespizzeria.com
deep pan - Spontini's in Milano http://www.pizzeriaspontini.it
Image


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