divorce and fighting for child custody

[Cory]

Now I am anyway under preliminary sessions at the court at the moment, but are you saying discussing with my ex using the mediator regarding the children's custody would have also changed what he wrote on his divorce paper without submitting the objection to court?
Or the child custody information he wrote on the application is nothing to do is actual care after divorce?

I have no idea if a mediator would help "change his mind". A mediator is only a person that sits to help 2 people communicate and be heard.

[rinso]

can the decision made between the mother and the father outside court enforceable somehow by submitting it to the court?
Since he changes his opinion quite often, I think the agreement is better be legally enforceable.

You can draw up a kind of contract and let social services register it (sorry don't know the details how it works).

But from what I interpret from your story, I think it is best to let everything go through the court.
If you have some sort of agreement with the father, you can make that proposal in court. Even if you only have a partial agreement you can make that suggestion. The court will fill in the blanks.

[libre]

thank you, rinso, for your input.
that might be a solution for me to shorten the court sessions as well as expenses.
I think I can stop paying a lot of money to the lawyer once we can agree on things even during the preliminary sessions.
It is probably my ex benefit as well since he has his own lawyer.
I don't know how much this kind of agreement agreed during the preliminary session is enforceable by law(probably not fully), but I'll find out.

[rinso]

since he has his own lawyer.

So two lawyers Their main purpose is to keep each other busy.
Convince your husband that letting the lawyers fight will only increase the costs, but not improve the result.
Try to find a solution where you're both comfortable with.

[sophye]

My husband left me suddenly, when our baby boy was just 5 weeks old. The way the separation happens, does not count. Because my husband just moved away and I stayed with the baby, he had actually no chance of getting the primary custody. If the kids live with you, it would have to be a really good reason "to change the primary caretaker".

I didn't give the baby to the father in the beginning at all. I told he can come an visit as much as he wants, but I didn't think it's appropriate to take a little baby away from the caretaker for a long time. When the baby was 6 months, he started to visit dad's place 4 hours at a time, two times a week. This decision was made in the court, by us parents. We came in to an agreement about the meetings all the way until he 18 months. Then we will see how things go and try to agree further. Now, being 12 months, our boy spends 6 hours at dad's place, twice a week. In two months he will start to go and spend one night every two weeks. An agreement made during the court process is as valid as the court's decision.

Joint custody is the primary way to solve the custody in finland. You have to have a really good reason to not to end up in joint custody. I tried to get the custody alone, because we could not agree about things concerning the child. The only way to agree was that I do what he says. We really had majure disagreements on the child's caretaking, health, day care options, living...I as well have a fear of him kidnapping the child to his home country, I'm finnish and he is not. The court ended up in joint custody, because we already showed some agreeing with the meetings, so they didn't think agreeing is impossible. Luckily our situation has since improved and we can quite well be parents together and make decisions.

I have heard that the court decision about the meetings can be based on the history as well. If you already have some kind of rutine in it and it seems to work, they will not change it. One week/ one week system is not usually recommended with small kids, because it might be confusing and the child might feel unsafe, not really having a home anywhere. Of course situations are different, as well as kids are. Sharing the living of the kids 50/50 as well needs a lot of co-operation and good communication from the parents.

What ever you do, don't thread with the kidnapping, or don't even talk about it, it might cost you your kids. I myself was surprised that anything can be presented in the court and it's your job to prove it right or wrong. My ex-husband spoke such things about me that I was not prepared. He twisted everything around and made up things, and I should have been able to prove them wrong. How do you prove what happened in a private conversation? I was just quiet, I didn't feel like fighting anymore or starting to do the same, since I felt how much it hurts.

Well, luckily we are fine now. Still afraid of loosing my boy, since the dad has made couple of jokes about not returning him. I'm avoiding all conflicts so that at least I don't push him to take it to the extreme. I don't think this kind of father has any rights to the child, but I do think the child has the right to both parents. That's why I'm just holding on to provide what I think is truly best for my boy, having a good relationship with his father too.

Good luck and all the best for you!

[libre]

thank you, sophye,
your experience and advice helps me to understand my situation more clear.
I was in a shock and I could not think at all in the begining so my kids are already in one-week system. I understand I need to have very good reason to change it.

I've actually noticed some unstableness in my 7 years old weeks after one week system has been started, but my ex says there's nothing different, and who else can tell.

you talk about kidnapping like I think I would do, but I don't think such way of separating one of the parents is good at all, for my kids (especially for my 7 years old) and I actually had many chances before I could do (and its legal in my country) but I never did. My ex, on the other hand, brought whole family back to Finland twice in our marriage, and immediately announced divorce. In both cases he kept his plan secret when we lived in my country.

I have heavy stone in my heart that I might need to leave my 12 months daughter, and my 7 year old son here and run away from finland if I don't want feel alone, if I want to be happy. However that cannot be done as I promissed my son I won't leave him ever and I don't want to. this is what you mean pushing somebody to extreme. I'm still holding on.

good luck to you, too.

[sophye]

What ever you do, don't thread with the kidnapping, or don't even talk about it, it might cost you your kids.

By this comment I mean that don't really talk about it in public. I understood that you would not do it, but just saying out the word "kidnap" might turn against you. This might sound silly, but weird things can be used against you. Words can be twisted around etc.

If you think this one week system might harm your kids, you can still stop it. 12 months old is really young for that. You can tell that you have tried it now and it didn't feel good and right. I think the court cannot force that option. Ask more from your lawyer. (I don't know if you have checked if you could get a free or cheap legal aid (http://www.oikeus.fi/8108.htm), you can get that for a private lawyer as well. At least the maintenance payment is something where your kids are the claimants and they could get the legal aid?)

You should ask from your lawyer if you could have a chance to get the single custody and get a possibility to move back to your home country, because your family and friends are there and of course you need help and support as well. The kids can still meet their father regurlarly. I hope you can hold on so on that you will never have to leave your kids. Life can be difficult, but try to stay positive and find support. I really understand your pain in this.

[Flossy1978]

Don't do every other week.

I've been advised by a therapist that's not good for children, especially very small children like yours. Imagine your baby being taken from his/her mum for a week at a time. Can you imagine how awful it would be for the poor child or any children?

Fight for the every other weekend sharing. It is most important children of divorce are made to feel like they have a home which is theirs. That they have as stable a life as possible.

Is your ex only wanting every other week because he thinks he doesn't have to pay child support? If that's the case, he'll still have to pay.

It's a sad situation for your children. They haven't done anything to cause this and you both should sit down and try to see what it must be like for them. Your ex isn't putting the childrens' needs first, but his own. Nothing new there. Goodluck!

[libre]

Thanks Sophye and Flossy.
I agree. Moving children one house to other every week, seems to be more for parents than for children. For parents, you get both what you want. One week, you have plenty of time to do whatever you want, and you still get to see your kids. Divorce should also be much easier as it does not cause any maintenance money exchange.

I think my kids needs father still and I will let them meet him anyway as much as possible, but in the same time I strongly believe my kids needs a stable home and a stable care taker. I really would like him to understand this and take responsibility.

[Flossy1978]

Yes, of course children need to see their Fathers. This is the reason I pay a lot more money to live where I do, rather than having moved away to somewhere where I'd have a lot less expenses. I chose to waste my money doing this, because my child having a relationship with his Father was important to me. And because it was in no way my child's fault his parents couldn't be together. So I tried to make as little disruption to his life as possible. Ok, it was his Father who made the divorce, but I still thought of my child before anything else.

I think you should do what most other people do when dealing with young children and divorce, ever other weekend to the Father.

The therapists I was seeing for my son said it is better the children have less visitation, but when visiting make it for a longer time. Changing homes other week isn't the right way to do this, but every other weekend Friday to Sunday is. As the children of yours need to feel safe and have a real 'home' environment at their ages.

I don't know how the Father can justify taking a baby from the mother for a week at a time. Can you imagine the feelings that poor little child must go through every week changing homes? The child would lose any sense of security and being safe. Even for your older child it can cause emotional problems.

Fight with all you have to get every other weekend visitation. Your ex isn't seeing what it'd be like for his children. And what is his excuse for having them every other week anyway? The child support or what?

[Cory]

There are many mature divorced couples who understand how difficult it is for children to move house every week.

Instead, the 2 parents have a house for the kids and an apartment for them. The parents are the ones who shift from house to house but the kids stay in the same home.

Parents keep family home and rent/buy another flat/house. When Dad is in the family home with the kids, Mom is at the 2nd residence. When Mom moves over to the family home, Dad goes to the 2nd residence.

This takes a certain level of maturity and dedication to keeping stability in the kids' life, but it's the best for the children.

[Flossy1978]

And what do the couples do? Do they move all their personal stuff every week? I am not being sarcastic or anything, it's a real question. If a parent breaks stuff while in the childrens' home that week and all other things come into play. It'd be interesting to know.

[Xochiquetzal]

Something to think about: I am a child of divorce and stayed with mother during the week and father on most weekends. For me, as a young child, I treasured the time with my father as much as my mother. I would have lost out had my parents not agreed upon amicable visiting and changing homes. I am glad they chose visiting options.

[Flossy1978]

I couldn't do the option of staying one week in the house and then leaving for a week. I am not a selfish person. Afterall it was my ex who divorced me, yet it's been me who has only ever put our child first and has had to sacrifice what I want in life to keep my child in the life he knows. I don't expect a reward or anything for this. It's just what a good parent does. But I have to be selfish to a degree and would not be able to share a home with my ex and his wife.

As it is, my child only lives about 4km from his Father's home. So it's close he can ride his bike. Still, he spends most his time with me. We use to have it he went one night during the week and one night on the weekend to his Father, but my child has some issues and changing homes like this was causing problems. So now we do it every other weekend for a full weekend. If my child wants to see his Father more, he is welcome to ask, but he never asks and his Father never ever asks.

Divorce is difficult. There's so much stuff to take into consideration. But through it all, the child/children should always be thought of first. Afterall, it's NEVER a child's fault if a marriage breaks down.

[sophye]

I agree about the one week system, that it might be too hard for the kids. Yet, kids are different and so are parents, so I'm not here to judge anybody.

I have encountered a lot of critics about how I deal with the meetings of my son and his father. I have thought it through and I believe I am doing the best I can in providing my son a good and safe environment and possibility to know his dad. People are so different that I don't believe that there is only one right way to do it. In my case people have judging how I'm selfish since I don't let my son to spend more time with his dad and I don't always do as it would be thet best for the dad.

First, I'm letting my son visit dad as much as I think is ok for him to spend away from me (mom, the primary caretaker). I can choose myself what I think is a good time for my child. I have been reading a lot and consulting specialists about it and I base my desicion on this information and my son's character.

Second, I'm not a wonderwoman who can create a perfect environment for the kid to live despite the divorce. The divorce was never my choice, but I'm dealing with it the best way I can. I'm taking the best care of my son AND MYSELF. Sometimes I should maybe be different or act different, but I have to take care of myself too. It takes to to make it work in this case, and I'm doing as much as I can, not as much as it is possible. I could try to still make the dad happy and do everything as he suggests, but I really have to concentrate on my own life now. Taking care of myself and giving myself the opportunity to live a happy life is important for my son's wellfare too. Child goes first, but how would I be able to put him first, if I'm a complete mess myself?

Not really well expressed but I hope you get the point...