Divorce - resident permit and divorce certificate issues

[livestrong]

Hi all,

I and my husband are processing a divorce now. The district court sent a letter to me and explained that, the cooling period will take 6 months. And after 6 months if both still desire the divorce then district court will grant the application. The divorce will officially take effect a year after the time of the first document sent.

I am living here with A-visa resident permit thank to my husband (EU schengen citizenship), I am an Asian and last year student in University of Applied Sciences. So my question is when do I have to apply for another resident permit, right away, or after 6 months or a year? Because of the different time given by the district court.

I probably apply for job resident permit because soon I will graduate. Please share your experience so that I got the picture of what to do next. Thank you very much in advance!

And will the divorce certificate be delivered (by post)to our addresses or not at all. if yes, when?

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,

Livingstrong

[Upphew]

Hi all,

I and my husband are processing a divorce now. The district court sent a letter to me and explained that, the cooling period will take 6 months. And after 6 months if both still desire the divorce then district court will grant the application. The divorce will officially take effect a year after the time of the first document sent.

I am living here with A-visa resident permit thank to my husband (EU schengen citizenship), I am an Asian and last year student in University of Applied Sciences. So my question is when do I have to apply for another resident permit, right away, or after 6 months or a year? Because of the different time given by the district court.

I probably apply for job resident permit because soon I will graduate. Please share your experience so that I got the picture of what to do next. Thank you very much in advance!

And will the divorce certificate be delivered (by post)to our addresses or not at all. if yes, when?

The divorce will happen even if only one of you still want it after the cool off period.

You should file for new RP before you get your divorce done or after the current permit runs out. And I would choose the earlier time just in case and if possible.

Btw, I have no experience, so grain of salt...

[Rip]

By the way, do you have a "residence permit" or you registered as a family member of a EU citizen? (It is not a "visa" at least).

If the divorce would take affect after both your graduation and the current expiry date of your permit, I'd think the best way is to go by this route:
http://www.migri.fi/studying_in_finland ... graduation

[rinso]

You should file for new RP before you get your divorce done or after the current permit runs out. And I would choose the earlier time just in case and if possible.

To be clear, don't base the application on marriage since you know it will probably end. In that case it could very well be considered giving false information and the permit cancelled right away.

[Pursuivant]

It all depends on what grounds you have the current RP, and when is its end date. If you are here as an EU-spouse or a non-EU student is apples and oranges. Also, if your permit has an end date or not.

Mind you, when you get the divorce paper, its about 3 lines of text in Finnish without stamps nor signatures. Something you could write on your own computer. Finnish officials "look in the computer", they don't appreciate papers any more. So what you do then is you can phone up the court in question and ask an "EU certificate" of divorce. It is written in English and looks very much official. Just to make officials wanting impressive papers happy - say when you renew your passport etc.

[livestrong]

I currently just have A-resident permit (EU-spouse RP), not student resident permit because there is no sense to make two resident permits simultaneously. The EU-spouse resident permit is valid until 2016, however, I will loose the A-resident permit after the district court grants our divorce application (6 months). At the time the divorce application will be granted, it's also the time I am gonna graduate. Therefore, I am thinking of apply for employment resident permit, if it is possible.

It is fairly complicated to my case because I need to get my name changed, change passport, apply for visa again. As you guys advised, I should take care of it before hand (before the divorce is offically completed), should I come to ask for the advice from the police station?

The district court mentioned 3 different time in the paper, could someone be kind to help to translate their statement please:

"- Harkinta-ajan alkamispäivä on 6.3.2012
- käräjäoikeus voi ottaa asian jatkokäsittelyyn, kun harkinta-ajan alkamisesta on kulunut vähintään kuusi kuukautta eli aikaisintaan 7.9.2011
- Hakemus on tehtävä kuitenkin ennen kuin yksi vuosi on kulunut harkinta ajan alkamisesta eli viimeistään 6.3.2013

Ellei hakemusta toimiteta käräjäoikeuteen määräajassa, avioeroasianne raukeaa."

As one of my friend explained that because we got divorce 4 months after our marriage(it is too short time) thus the court want us to think thoroughly with the divorce decision that why they give 1 year for the divorce to take effect.

But another interpreted from above statement that the second document of divorce can be sent between 7.9.2012 - 6.3.2013.

I really mixed up with those two explanations. As I understood, we should sent the document once again on 7.9.2012, and at that point the divorce is completed. But the court will only issue the divorce certificate one year after the first document of divorce sent - that mean on 6.3.2013. Please someone be kind to correct!

[AldenG]

however, I will loose the A-resident permit after the district court grants our divorce application (6 months). At the time the divorce application will be granted,

Are you sure about that?

You will not be eligible to renew after the divorce, or probably even while it is pending. But you apparently have a 4-year permit now.(?) So who says it will be cancelled in the middle of its term once you divorce?

Of course changing your name immediately may complicate things considerably, I'm not sure.

[Rip]

But another interpreted from above statement that the second document of divorce can be sent between 7.9.2012 - 6.3.2013.

This one is correct. The effect will be more or less immediate. No second waiting period involved.

however, I will loose the A-resident permit after the district court grants our divorce application (6 months). At the time the divorce application will be granted,

Are you sure about that?

You will not be eligible to renew after the divorce, or probably even while it is pending. But you apparently have a 4-year permit now.(?) So who says it will be cancelled in the middle of its term once you divorce?

Of course changing your name immediately may complicate things considerably, I'm not sure.

Without consulting Finlex (if there was any difference here between residence permits or residence cards (For family members of EU citizens), I'm pretty sure Alden is right that there is no automatic cancellation. A divorce is a reason to revoke the residence permit (and considering the shortness of marriage, I would think in this case even a likely result), but it still would require a separate administrative decision, made by a different authority on some date after granting the divorce.

Re-changing one's name is of course perfectly optional here, although I understand if you want to do it (but think what is the most practical timing).

[AldenG]

(but think what is the most practical timing).

Just to be clear, I think Rip is getting at the same idea I was getting at:

Changing your name immediately, and especially getting your permit stamped into a new passport with the new name, is likely to bring further attention to the divorce. It is quite possible, I think, that you could stay legally until the scheduled end of your permit, without authorities noticing that they should cancel your permit. (Maybe they are not even supposed to cancel it, but only to wait until its renewal date.) That is, unless your ex decides to call it to their attention. But even then, I would not just assume that a valid permit will be cancelled.

By 2016 you may have much better grounds for renewal.

You should consult an expert advisor on these questions, not just friends and us here. The stress and uncertainty and the risk of doing the wrong thing or failing to do a better thing are not worth saving a few euros. Get a definitive answer so that you don't worry needlessly for years or miss an important opportunity to strengthen your position.

[Rip]

Without consulting Finlex (if there was any difference here between residence permits or residence cards (For family members of EU citizens)

OK, I checked the law. For residence permits (for example non-EU family members of non EU-immigrants, most family members of Finnish citizens, and for those family member of EU-citizens that decided to go through the residence permit route (I've learned from this board that these exist too), the operative clause in aliens act is

Section 58 (358/2007)
Cancelling residence permits
---
(5) A fixed-term residence permit may
be cancelled if the grounds on which the
permit was issued no longer exist.

Emphasis added. So, there is case by case consideration (earlier threads have had an government paper how this works linked here) and therefore it can't possibly be automatic (and it is not the business of the district court that grants divorce)

For those having the EU family member residence card, the law says this:

Section 161e (360/2007)
Retaining the right of residence of family
members in the event of divorce
--
(2) Family members of an EU citizen
who themselves are not EU citizens do not
lose their right of residence in the event of
divorce if:
1) the marriage has lasted at least three
years, including one year in Finland;
2) by agreement between the spouses or a
court decision, the spouse who is not an EU
citizen has custody of the children of the EU
citizen;
3) it is warranted by particularly difficult
circumstances such as violence in the
marriage; or
4) by agreement between the spouses or by
a court decision, the spouse who is not an EU
citizen has a right of access to a minor, and
the court has ruled that the access must be in
Finland.

there is also the section

Section 165 (360/2007)
Cancelling registration of the right of
residence or a residence card

(1) The registration of the right of
residence or a fixed-term residence card is
cancelled if:
---
3) the grounds for registering the right of
residence or issuing a fixed-term residence
card no longer exist.

My reading of 161e is that A) that if you one does not match any of the criteria listed, then right of residence is lost and B) there is no other consideration involved. Originally I even thought it might be considered to be an automatic effect of granting the divorce, but taking together with section 165 (and section 171 about competent authorities), I think it still does require a separate act by the police (but the that might come quickly)

[livestrong]

Section 161e (360/2007)
Retaining the right of residence of family
members in the event of divorce
--
(2) Family members of an EU citizen
who themselves are not EU citizens do not
lose their right of residence in the event of
divorce if:
1) the marriage has lasted at least three
years, including one year in Finland;
2) by agreement between the spouses or a
court decision, the spouse who is not an EU
citizen has custody of the children of the EU
citizen;
3) it is warranted by particularly difficult
circumstances such as violence in the
marriage; or
4) by agreement between the spouses or by
a court decision, the spouse who is not an EU
citizen has a right of access to a minor, and
the court has ruled that the access must be in
Finland.

there is also the section

Section 165 (360/2007)
Cancelling registration of the right of
residence or a residence card

(1) The registration of the right of
residence or a fixed-term residence card is
cancelled if:
---
3) the grounds for registering the right of
residence or issuing a fixed-term residence
card no longer exist.

You are right Rip, my case does not match any criteria in the section 161e. Therefore, I am concerning to apply for employment resident permit, If I can find work after my graduation. Now I have to figure out when and how do I have to apply for it?

I already applied to get my name changed before the divorce because I want my original name written on my bachelor certificate, however, the process for name changing will take about 3 to 6 months. The name change will be free after divorce, but I have no choice, preferably pay and get it change in my diploma.

[Upphew]

I already applied to get my name changed before the divorce because I want my original name written on my bachelor certificate, however, the process for name changing will take about 3 to 6 months. The name change will be free after divorce, but I have no choice, preferably pay and get it change in my diploma.

Did you ask if it is possible to get new diploma after the name change?

[Tiwaz]

You are right Rip, my case does not match any criteria in the section 161e. Therefore, I am concerning to apply for employment resident permit, If I can find work after my graduation. Now I have to figure out when and how do I have to apply for it?

IIRC, you apply for employment based resident permit once you have a job.

Which leaves you with catch 22... If you do not get that job straight away, you are going to be in trouble when official notices your marriage, reeking of attempt to cheat your way into Finland, and rips your existing RP into pieces.

[LEKANSMART]

I heard rumors about a new law concerning DIVORCE in Finland,that divorcee must pay €30000 to the state/Government.Who knows about this?

[Rip]

Who knows about this?

Stop believing in stupid rumours.