Joint custody and travelling abroad with child

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:00 pm

Bit of a long shot but does anyone know about the laws on this? My ex has suddenly decided that he won't allow me to take our daughter on holiday to England this summer unless I sign a new custody agreement with him, giving him 50/50 custody. I am not able to sign any agreement like that, even if I wanted to, because lastensuojelu is involved and his living situation has not been checked yet (and can't be until he finishes his home renovations) and they are of the opinion anyway that 50/50 would be very bad for our daughter. So I'm basically being blackmailed by him, can't sign any agreement so I strongly suspect he will contact passport control and try and get them to put a hold on her passport (he will claim I'm kidnapping her and not returning or something like that)

If he does this can I actually be stopped from leaving the country with her, even though I have the return tickets booked etc.?

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ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:06 pm

Do you have full custody of the child?
If you do, you should not need your ex's permission to travel. As always, better to check with the authorities in advance, police and lastensuojelu.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:24 pm

We have shared legal custody and at the moment no valid custody agreement (our court agreement expired this year). Lastensuojelu are aware he's trying this but they don't see a way to stop him. Sounds like talking to the police is the best bet then.

Thanks.

ajdias · Post by **ajdias** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:41 pm

I'm sure that someone better informed can help you best from a legal point of view, so I won't comment further.

In any case, document every interaction with your ex. Recording phone conversations is legal and if you have a smartphone you should find a few good apps for that, even for free.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:08 pm

We have shared legal custody

In that case he can prevent you taken your daughter abroad.
I think only a court decision can overrule his objection.

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:16 pm

I recorded him saying that he won't let me take her abroad, if nothing else it'll be useful in court as I have to go for sole custody now as he'll just keep doing this.

Bugger if only a court decision can overrule him saying no. I don't even know how to contact the police anyway, all their contact points seem to be for reporting crimes or applying for licenses, no general information phone line or anything.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:05 pm

It is not a police matter if you have no criminal complaint to file.

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:49 pm

So there really isn't anything I can do then, just cancel the holiday

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:05 pm

NatskuLove wrote:So there really isn't anything I can do then, just cancel the holiday

Finnish law by default does not require permission from both guardians to travel abroad:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

The UK doesn't seem to require it either. Then it's another question what the spouse can cause if he chooses to alert the authorities. Both UK and Finland are part of the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction so your spouse should have efficient legal means available should you choose to remain in the UK. This could limit the possibility to prevent travel from Finland. However, I am somewhat guessing here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conv ... _Abduction

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:36 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
NatskuLove wrote:So there really isn't anything I can do then, just cancel the holiday
Finnish law by default does not require permission from both guardians to travel abroad:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

The UK doesn't seem to require it either. Then it's another question what the spouse can cause if he chooses to alert the authorities. Both UK and Finland are part of the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction so your spouse should have efficient legal means available should you choose to remain in the UK. This could limit the possibility to prevent travel from Finland. However, I am somewhat guessing here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conv ... _Abduction

Agreed. Taking vacation shouldn't be problem if the destination country doesn't need permission from both guardians. Back in the day it was easy to sabotage such trips as police needed permission from the other parent too when applying for a passport. That was changed http://www.finlex.fi/fi/esitykset/he/1997/19970182

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:36 pm

It does not look like you need anything. If you're not convinced with the answers (and links) given, then it seems you should contact either a lawyer with the right specialty or the Border Guard.

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:30 pm

My lawyer told me that my ex could contact passport control and possibly stop me travelling that way. I'm not going to take the risk of losing my money on tickets if we do get stopped. We'll just stay in Finland this summer and get this sorted in court so we can go next year.

NatskuLove · Post by **NatskuLove** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:36 pm

It is possible to abduct your own child, for instance if I left the country and didn't return. But anyway, thanks you lot for the info and advice but we've decided to not bother with the holiday this year, just not worth the stress. We didn't book the tickets yet so no money lost and now we can spend that money on a fun week in Finland, go to court and get it sorted for a holiday next year.

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