questions about daycare and nursery

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podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by podzap » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:54 am

I am really just trying to point out that Finland is pretty solidly built upon the two-income concept and although 5500 is more than most individuals earn, it's a lot less than most professional working couples in Helsinki earn. Things are going to be tight, especially since neither one of you know how to live here or speak the language. Also, as USA people, you may find it extremely difficult to open a bank account now due to the worldwide damage Obama caused for USA people living overseas, otherwise known as FATCA. Trump will try to get FATCA repealed before summer as part of his tax reform agenda, but don't keep your fingers crossed that he will succeed.

Not sure how many times you will need to visit migri, but that is anyway for immigration and residence status related matters. Benefits, which you aren't going to receive because your residence permit type stipulates that your livelihood needs to come from your sponsor's salary and not government benefits, come from Kela. Kela also handles medical insurance. You all will need to visit Kela to get your medical insurance cards, etc. When I say "benefits" I am referring to anything other than the standard medical insurance coverage and medical subsidies that all residents receive.

Many of the apartments in Helsinki are subsidized, which means those are off-limits to you because the salary is too high. For example, about 9 years back when I got divorced and needed to move. and found an apartment, my monthly salary was about 100 EUR too high (was 4700 per month at that time). I really could not find another suitable apartment in my schedule, so I actually needed to ask my employer to REDUCE my salary. And the rent was still freaking high, about 35% of my net salary - not a good situation at all. There are a lot of poor people living in Helsinki, but then they are usually receiving "asumistuki" (gov pays their rent and electricity). That's the reason why the rents stay high and finding an apartment can take a long time. For evry available apartment that is in the average price range, there will be over 20 applicants (sometimes a whole lot more than that) and it's not a transparent process - they can pick whoever they want without giving any reason. There are currently something like 30 thousand asylum seekers that the government is trying to move out of reception centers and into apartments, which makes things even tighter.

In Finland, it's not as simple as deciding to get a job and then getting one. If you don't have experience in the telecom or IT sector, then you can absolutely forget finding a job until you can speak Finnish. If you do have experience in those sectors, then there is a very slight chance that you might get a job. Being invited to come here and work is a whole different ballgame than trying to compete for open jobs; I know many people, educated Finns, who have sent out over 200 applications before they got an interview and job.



Re: questions about daycare and nursery

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betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:50 pm

podzap wrote:When you wait in line in front of Migri's Helsinki office starting at 4 or 5 AM, in the rain and snow, just to get a number, because they only give 50-70 per day, in order to clarify your situation, then maybe you will wish that you had listened. Or maybe not. Kids are sure to be screaming in their strollers, in any case. There are over 300 people in line every day, when the doors open at 8 AM, and about 90% of them get sent home with the advice to come back tomorrow.
That's why it's preferred to schedule a time using the online booking system. Granted the availability of times seems scant currently in Helsinki. The only available times are two months to the future so one needs to be on it well in advance. The current situation should get better once they have cleared the backlog of cases from the police and asylum seekers.
mollypicon wrote:Could you tell me why I'd need a number for the Migri?
When your permit needs to be renewed you need to visit them for the fingerprints. However, there's proposed legislation that the fingerprint requirement would be removed so the process can be done purely online.
mollypicon wrote: Do I need to do some monthly visit to get the subsidy for the daycare?
No.
mollypicon wrote:Admittedly my husband's employer sold him on the position based in part on the fine schools and care available for children (and some small amount of money)- is that just BS?
I don't think it is though I have no personal experience with part time setups.
podzap wrote:I am really just trying to point out that Finland is pretty solidly built upon the two-income concept and although 5500 is more than most individuals earn, it's a lot less than most professional working couples in Helsinki earn.
The median disposable money income for a family with one kid and one person working is around 50k (27500*(1+0.5+0.3)). If I add child benefit and max flexible care allowance I get to 47k. Yes with only one person working, it's less than two professional couples but really this would be the case anywhere in the world.

http://www.findikaattori.fi/en/60
podzap wrote:Things are going to be tight, especially since neither one of you know how to live here or speak the language.
So you argue that things are tight for a median household? I do not agree.
podzap wrote:Also, as USA people, you may find it extremely difficult to open a bank account now due to the worldwide damage Obama caused for USA people living overseas, otherwise known as FATCA. Trump will try to get FATCA repealed before summer as part of his tax reform agenda, but don't keep your fingers crossed that he will succeed.
Harder yes, extremely difficult no.
podzap wrote:Benefits, which you aren't going to receive because your residence permit type stipulates that your livelihood needs to come from your sponsor's salary and not government benefits, come from Kela.
The Aliens Act does not control government benefits. They are controlled by separate legislation. You need to pass the threshold as a household to get the permit in the first place but once in the country it's fine to use benefits (especially child related ones). From section 39 of the Aliens Act:
(2) An alien’s means of support are considered secure at the time when the alien’s first residence permit is issued if the alien’s residence is financed through gainful employment, pursuit of a trade, pensions, property or income from other sources considered normal so that the alien cannot be expected to become dependent on social assistance referred to in the Act on Social Assistance (1412/1997) or on other similar benefit to secure his or her means of support. Social security benefits compensating for expenses are not regarded as such a benefit.
(3) When issuing extended permits, the alien’s means of support shall be secure as provided in subsection 2, provided, however, that temporary resort to social assistance or other similar benefit securing the alien’s means of support does not prevent the issue of the permit.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf
podzap wrote: Kela also handles medical insurance. You all will need to visit Kela to get your medical insurance cards, etc.
Not in the sense that Americans understand it. They do give out the European Health Insurance card for travel within the Union but actual healthcare is provided and financed by the municipality of residence. Kela handles things like compensation for drugs and sickness allowance. You do not need to visit Kela, if you use their online services.
podzap wrote: Many of the apartments in Helsinki are subsidized, which means those are off-limits to you because the salary is too high. For example, about 9 years back when I got divorced and needed to move. and found an apartment, my monthly salary was about 100 EUR too high (was 4700 per month at that time). I really could not find another suitable apartment in my schedule, so I actually needed to ask my employer to REDUCE my salary. And the rent was still freaking high, about 35% of my net salary - not a good situation at all.
The thing to know about the Finnish housing market is that for working households it's common to own the apartment. Getting a mortgage is possible for foreigners after a couple years of residence. For example our current apartment if we were renting, would cost us three times the expenses it does with a mortgage (the cashflow is about the same but two thirds go towards equity).
podzap wrote: There are a lot of poor people living in Helsinki, but then they are usually receiving "asumistuki" (gov pays their rent and electricity).
Asumistuki does not cover electricity.
Additional costs paid separately but in connection with the rent or maintenance charge are not recognised as housing costs. They include:
  • electricity
  • sauna
  • laundry room
  • parking
  • internet access
http://www.kela.fi/web/en/eligibility_r ... sing-costs
podzap wrote:There are currently something like 30 thousand asylum seekers that the government is trying to move out of reception centers and into apartments, which makes things even tighter.
Between 02/2016 and 01/2017 there were around 7800 positive decisions for international protection.

http://tilastot.migri.fi/#decisions/23330

These people do cause problems for public housing. Private landlords however prioritise working people over asylum seekers so I don't see this having an effect on people like mollypicon.
podzap wrote:If you don't have experience in the telecom or IT sector, then you can absolutely forget finding a job until you can speak Finnish.
These are among the best sectors to find jobs but I do know people having success in other sectors as well.


mollypicon
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:40 am

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by mollypicon » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:30 pm

Thank you. Actually, my husband speaks some Finnish (he is Russian and studied Finnish at school), we have lived in Europe before, and help with the apartment and bank account is part of the employment package. Still looking for tips on part-time care for children (or absolutely anything else concerning children, which is my main concern). Thanks!


Quin
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:50 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by Quin » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Part-time day care is available from most private daycares at about 650 euro a month. Then you can deduct the kela and municipal allowance to get to your monthly payment.

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/child-care-allowances

Other option would be to start using https://www.mll.fi/en/ and get baby sitters for the times you would need care. About 8.20 an hour


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theelephantmum
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:25 pm
Location: Espoo
Contact:

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by theelephantmum » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:21 pm

It's almost impossible to live in Finland without a social security number. You should try to get that for you and your child. If you can prove you have substantial savings to live with and you husband has a job in Finland, it should be doable. With that, you are "in the system".

There are some options for part-time daycare:
- private daycare, part-time (ENG language available)
- public daycare, part-time (FIN / SWE)
- "kerho" <-- FREE in Helsinki (FIN, not sure if SWE as well)
I think you can access with no social security number to the private one, while I strongly suspect you NEED it for the other options.
Finland gives priority to children with working parents to access public daycare (logical), but in 2-3 months everyone gets a place anyway. Kerho is an option for stay-at-home parents; it's a sort of day-care, usually 2 hours for 2, 3 or 4 times a week. And it's FREE in Helsinki.
Public daycare centres offer also part-time option, which is max 5 hours/day OR send the kid on some days full-time and have some other free (max 25 h/week). I don't know Helsinki rates, but in Espoo the latter costs about 200 euros/month.

There's also the location to take into consideration. Public daycares are all over the place, while private are many less. Kerho is also offered in some places only.
I hope this helps, or do you have other questions? The discussion got a little carried away. Welcome to Finland!
:sun: My blog on parenting, adoption & living in Finland >> theelephantmum.wordpress.com :sun:
Instagram: @theelephantmum


African Girl
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:42 am

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by African Girl » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:35 pm

My goodness, I'm not sure what is wrong with some people on this forum. You ask a simple question and they go into a lecture about how it is impossible to live on one salary in Finland. My husband and I are currently doing that - he is the only one working atm - and we are managing really well, and saving a third of our income each month. That was NOT the question that OP was asking about.

Mollypicon, yes your child can get part-time care in Finland. From either public or private daycares. You will need to do some emailing or visiting them in person. Some private daycares do allow your child to come for just a few days - 3 or 4 per week. Many young Finnish children do not go to daycare on Fridays, for example. Another option is "kerho" which is a municipality-funded playgroup two or three times a week, very part-time and inexpensive. But perhaps that would not cover as many hours as you want or need. Private babysitters are also an option as well as "family daycare" (Perhepäivähoito) which is run out of people's homes, usually by a mother or older lady, in small groups.


okonri
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:15 pm

Re: questions about daycare and nursery

Post by okonri » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:39 am

African Girl wrote:My goodness, I'm not sure what is wrong with some people on this forum. You ask a simple question and they go into a lecture about how it is impossible to live on one salary in Finland. My husband and I are currently doing that - he is the only one working atm - and we are managing really well, and saving a third of our income each month. That was NOT the question that OP was asking about.

Mollypicon, yes your child can get part-time care in Finland. From either public or private daycares. You will need to do some emailing or visiting them in person. Some private daycares do allow your child to come for just a few days - 3 or 4 per week. Many young Finnish children do not go to daycare on Fridays, for example. Another option is "kerho" which is a municipality-funded playgroup two or three times a week, very part-time and inexpensive. But perhaps that would not cover as many hours as you want or need. Private babysitters are also an option as well as "family daycare" (Perhepäivähoito) which is run out of people's homes, usually by a mother or older lady, in small groups.
:D
You just made my day. Some people are self-appointed "wet blankets"


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