Kela Money?

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Dermot
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Kela Money?

Post by Dermot » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:30 pm

Im from Ireland. Im a musician with no formal qualifications, looking for a job and flat in Helsinki. I posted on here a few weeks ago.

I am still living in Viitasaari with my avovaimo and her parents.

I moved to Finland in August. In Ireland i was on the dole, getting Unemployment Assistance. I asked them if i could transfer the dole to Finland, and they said no, that i would have to be getting Unemployment Benefit payments in order to be eligible (which meant i'd have to have been working in the same job for a number of years there and received benefits from that).
I did not sign off the dole when i moved to Finland. I recently got my henkilötunnus (personal number) and residence permit here. I am applying for a Kela card now, and i'd also like to apply for Kela payments too...but i am thinking that i am going to enter a minefield if i do this as i did not sign off the dole in Ireland and i got payments into late August, which have ceased now.

Any advice on how to proceed, that anyone can give me would be great.

-Dermot



Kela Money?

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Homie Azteca
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Post by Homie Azteca » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:19 pm

Greets

Sorry mate but my experience of trying over and over again ....
you have to be in Finland for over 2 years, or being marriend with a finn for over 2 also. Then you can get the unemployed money ... you won't get Kela cause you aren't a student.
So, good luck
El Mariachi Loco quiere bailar!!


Ace

Re: Kela Money?

Post by Ace » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:35 pm

Dermot wrote:Any advice on how to proceed, that anyone can give me would be great.

-Dermot
I got this after a few months in finland:

http://193.209.217.5/in/internet/englis ... enDocument

would still be getting it if I hadn't took up full time study. You can get unemployment benefit for three months in Finland if you filled in the right forms at you jobcentre in Ireland before hand (and were in receipt of unemployment benefit there).

Now you have a residents permit, make an intergration plan at your local Finnish employment office, then you can get intergration allowance, if you look for work and attend any full time language courses they throw at you :wink:

good luck


Ace

Post by Ace » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:55 pm

Homie Azteca wrote:Greets

Sorry mate but my experience of trying over and over again ....
you have to be in Finland for over 2 years, or being marriend with a finn for over 2 also. Then you can get the unemployed money ... you won't get Kela cause you aren't a student.
So, good luck
Are you from outside the EU Homie? I think the rules could be different. You can certainly get unemployment money straight away (for a period of three months) if you were recieving it in one EU country and move to another EU country, and fill in the necessary forms.

Also if you register with EURES when arriving in Finland and then after recieving your residents permit get them to refer you to the Finnish empoyment office (this takes a few months).

You can then make your intergration plan and recieve benefit from KELA


Ace

Post by Ace » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:11 pm

http://www.mol.fi/english/employment/welcome.html
http://www.mol.fi/migration/engopas.pdf
http://www.mol.fi/english/index.html

My advice is register with EURES unemployment office pronto.
Generally EU bods have to go there before they get referred to a real job centre, in my experience.

Went like this for me:

EURES -> Residence Permit -> Työvoimatoimisto -> Kela -> Money

Then:

Full time study -> not resident in Finland for 2 years before commencing study ->
Not eligible for any money -> !"#¤% need a job quick :wink:

(if you plan to study here wait two years if possible)


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Thomas Koren
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Post by Thomas Koren » Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:39 am

hey dermot,

How did you get a residence permit without a job or anything?
I am still wondering because i shure as hell didn't get one......


PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:56 am

Dermot is from Ireland an EU country he can get a temporary residents permit valid for 5 years...IF...He is trying to find work or starting a training course....but...
Ref Kela money..it is a different story if he has never done any work here.. my advice to Dermot would be to get a job doing anything for just peanuts for a few months...there could be some temp farm/forest/timber work part time anything...become a "registered employee" ..get into their computors.. as far as Kela is concerned you then exist.... then quit or ask to be laid off.. .. Go to Kela and tell them..you are then a "registered unemployed EU citizen" and in my book entittled to Kela aid.


Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:25 am

I went to Kela with my gf. We're not married, but obviously a registered partnership (or registered living together) is enough to get the Kela card. I got the card without a problem and if needed can apply for Kela money.


Dermot
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Post by Dermot » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:36 pm

Thank you for your help, especially Peter and Olly.

My situation is similar to the one Arno just described.

I hope to get Kela money, and maybe even apply to do an English degree course in Helsinki University if things go well (i think the deadline for applying for next year is this month).


My course of action so far, was as follows:

Työvoimatoimisto -> Residence Permit -> Maistraatti -> Kela

At the moment i am awaiting Kela's decision regarding my entering the Finnish insurance system. After that i hope to get my Kela card, and then Kela money.

I got the residence permit with help from my avovaimo. She had to wait 5 weeks until Kela sent her a letter saying she was under the Finnish insurance scheme again. Now she is receiving Kela money.

I have to receive that letter, and then wait for a Kela card (presuming they deem me eligible). I don't know how long i will have to wait for my Kela card. My avovaimo will call Kela about the letter im suppossed to get.

The people in Kela told us that i am eligible for receiving Kela money after they have done the decision that i am under Finnish insurance. Apparently, i do not have to wait two years to get that money.


I filled out two forms at the police station: one for an ETA card (a short-term residence permit, until i could get the more long-term one) and for a more permanent residence permit. 2 1/2 weeks later i returned to the police station and they handed me my residence permit card (valid for 5 years).


I believe i registered online with EURES within a week or so of arriving in Finland. Im not sure if that means that i am registered with the EURES unemployment office. But i was not asked about it when i registered in the local employment office (työvoimatoimisto).

I am registered with the local employment office, however, they never told me about the intergration plan, nor the intergration money...which is apparrently connected with Kela, but is not benefit money/unemployment assistance money itself though.

Can anyone clarify this or give more information?

-Dermot


Ace

Post by Ace » Fri Oct 03, 2003 3:03 pm

If your registered with the Työvoimatoimisto go there and ask them about making an intergration plan, with that you can get intergration allowance. Its very small and its not unemployment money though.
Dermot wrote:I hope to get Kela money, and maybe even apply to do an English degree course in Helsinki University if things go well (i think the deadline for applying for next year is this month).
Be aware:
KELA wrote:Foreign citizens can get financial help with studies if they have had a valid residence permit and have lived in Finland at least two years for some other purpose than studies, and their residence in Finland is considered to be permanent. Even if you have been in Finland for less than two years, you may qualify for student financial aid if you e.g. are a refugee or remigrant. Nationals of EU and EEA Member States can get help with studies that are closely related to their work or if they have become involuntarily unemployed. The family members of employees covered by the EEA Agreement can also get financial assistance with their studies in the same way as Finnish citizens.
You have to be here for two years either working or unemployed, and not studying full time for any part of that two years in order to recieve Student financial aid.


dusty_bin
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Post by dusty_bin » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:27 pm

Am I the only one who finds it a touch 'distasteful' for any unemployed person, with no means of support and seemingly no job plans, to move from one country to another and straight away be trying to find ways of sponging off the government and other taxpayers?

Frankly, I hope it is NOT too easy, at least in one's former country, one could speak the language and therefore undertake unskilled labour, here, without language or job skills, it will be a long time before one would be able to be economically self sufficient...


Ace

Post by Ace » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:40 pm

dusty_bin wrote:Am I the only one who finds it a touch 'distasteful' for any unemployed person, with no means of support and seemingly no job plans, to move from one country to another and straight away be trying to find ways of sponging off the government and other taxpayers?

Frankly, I hope it is NOT too easy, at least in one's former country, one could speak the language and therefore undertake unskilled labour, here, without language or job skills, it will be a long time before one would be able to be economically self sufficient...
Well the way I see it is if you have worked in the past in an EU country and will work again in an EU country. Then the safety nets there for you. You can recieve the Intergration allowance whilst working anyway. I got my job before I applied for intergration allowance and still recieved it.

Its impratical to imagine people will find work as soon as they get here, But they will likely work 30+ years in the EU at least at some point in their lives, so the benefit is there for them.


dusty_bin
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Post by dusty_bin » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:06 pm

Norman Tebbit was IIRC famous for telling people to 'get on their bikes' in order to seek work. I am all in favour of this. On the other hand, I am not so sure about someone with no job skills, unemployed in his native country, moving to another country and immediately trying to find ways of getting social support in order that the career of unemployment may continue. I held off replying on this point for a few days, but when I saw that a proposed solution was to study and the proposed course of study was English, then at that point, I figured somebody was taking the mickey!

IMHO when we move country, or even city, it is our own responsibility to ensure that we can support ourselves. Not anyone else's. If we have made no contribution to any form of social fund we have no right to expect others to support us.
If the guy was working and needed additional support, I would have sympathy.
If the proposed course of study was something other than his native language, I might think that was OK, I would still not be in favour of him collecting any benefits for it though...

There are many foreign people in this country, motivated and willing to work, a fair number from countries other than Finland, whose journey and destination were not of choice but desperation. Some of these people have posted here, seeking assistance with finding work.
Some have followed their girl/boy friends and done the same.
I feel very uncomfortable about someone who appears to be seeking the choices that require the least expenditure of calories and yet wants to take the benefits that accrue to contributing members of this, or any society!

Integration allowance is a very useful benefit to those seeking integration into Finnish society, it is not a substitute for the dole. It is good that it is available to all who are able to collaborate on a plan of integration, including language studies. I hope Dermot is able to get it and use it for its designed purpose.
As to the rest, I hope that he either decides to undertake a course of study that is appropriate and that he does as those others of us who study here do, and support ourselves; or that he finds a job that utilises his existing talents, whatever they may be.
If neither of these outcomes happens, then I am sure that the parents of his girlfriend will support him as he needs...

Good luck on the integration Dermot and welcome!


PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:14 pm

Dusty..I know where your thoughts are..Student of economics that you are...
Keenes...etc ...but as you know only too well..the EU is all about the free mobility of labour...the fact that our Irish friend was out of work in one part of the EU and has moved his body to another part of the EU is just the same as would have been if he had moved from Dublin to Cork..The language is not a problem if he gets a job chopping down trees...OH and we should mention that he has a Finnish girl nagging him now to get of his Rs and earn some money. :roll:


Ace

Post by Ace » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:21 pm

dusty_bin wrote:Norman Tebbit was IIRC famous for telling people to 'get on their bikes' in order to seek work.
Lol :lol: I felt a bit bad about that cheap jibe so I removed it from my post. Seems I wasn't quick enough and you spotted it already :oops:

Olen Pahoillani


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