How long should I wait for Finnish citizenship?

[MOUSE]

I am having PR alredy 4 years, so I am able to apply the Finnish Citizenship. Now I am planning to do it. Is there anybody know how long should I wait? Someone told me it might take 4 years. Jeesus!

Another question, if I submit application now and leave finland to work in other country, does it affect to my application? Working in other coutry means no tax paid to Finland anymore.

Thanks in advance!

Alex

[Hank W.]

if I submit application now and leave finland to work in other country, does it affect to my application?

the "No ties to Finland" comes into mind...

[j o h a n n a]

I don't know about your particular situation, but I know that when I applied for Finnish citizenship through the new nationality act, I read in the papers that they were forecasting processing times of 4 years or more, as they didn't know how many people would apply. I got mine in less than 5 months! So maybe the stories of huge delays in general regarding applying for citizenship are slightly exaggerated--one hopes...

[sy]

Johanna, maybe you're talking about the acquisition of citizenship by declaration. And MOUSE is talking about the acquisition of citizenship by application. The two ways are in different queues. The declaration way may take several months, but the application way DOES take several years. I heard that one of my friends has got his citizenship after six years! Can you believe that?

To MOUSE, you have to ask UVI on leaving Finland to work while applying for the citizenship. First you have to make sure that your PR won't be annuled (check the Aliens Act). Second, you have to get UVI's approval that your working abroad is still counted as your residence in Finland. Under the Nationality Act, the residence requirement should be fulfilled at the time when the application is approved, not at the time when the application is submitted. That is, at the time they approve your application, you have stayed in Finland for the last 6 years without interruption, or 8 years after reaching the age ot 15, of which the last two years without interruption.

Having said that, if you work for a Finnish company, and the company sends you to work in another country for less than two years, then UVI might accept that you're still residing in Finland and eligable for the applicaiton. Again you have to get UVI's approval.

[j o h a n n a]

Johanna, maybe you're talking about the acquisition of citizenship by declaration. And MOUSE is talking about the acquisition of citizenship by application. The two ways are in different queues. The declaration way may take several months, but the application way DOES take several years.

Awww, yeah, I knew they were two separate things, but I was kind of hoping for MOUSE's sake that maybe the rumor of slowness that proved false in my case would also prove false in his... 6 years! That's crazy! I know such wait times are common in the US, but our INS is notoriously crappy & understaffed (especially now) & I guess I hoped Finland had more of a grip on things.

[Hank W.]

Yeah, especially now INS is "Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration (BCIS) in the Department of Homeland Security" it takes them 3 days to write the bureau name... and New Mexico is still a foreign country

[No.6]

Yeah, especially now INS is "Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration (BCIS) in the Department of Homeland Security" it takes them 3 days to write the bureau name... and New Mexico is still a foreign country

I've heard it and now I've read it in black and white. Thanks!
Luckily we live in "*the* Europe" to quote Nurse Betty

[just me]

Hi,

Just want to know ( for the near futher), Do you have to speak good FINNISH to be a finnish citizen?Do they asked you to go for an interview in FINNISH? I think many years ago they do that.

[Caroline]

Hi,

Just want to know ( for the near futher), Do you have to speak good FINNISH to be a finnish citizen?Do they asked you to go for an interview in FINNISH? I think many years ago they do that.

Yes, fluency in Finnish or Swedish is required for applying for Finnish citizenship.

[Slothrop]

Hi,

Just want to know ( for the near futher), Do you have to speak good FINNISH to be a finnish citizen?Do they asked you to go for an interview in FINNISH? I think many years ago they do that.

Yes, fluency in Finnish or Swedish is required for applying for Finnish citizenship.

I'd better not comment too forcefully here, as my memory of it all is a bit dim, but back in the 1980s when I got naturalised, I was quite concerned about "the test", having confused it with the civil servants' requirement in Swedish, which IS pretty stiff. I seem to recall I had a brief chat with some bod from the University of Helsinki about this and that, and came away from it thinking that it was not that bad, and was basically "Stockmann Finnish" and no more. "Fluency" it wasn't.

Obviously you are going to have to go through plenty of form-filling in any case, though for most people they will have a tame Finn in tow to get past the worst hurdles.

You do get quite a nice personally-signed document at the end, with the Minister of the Interior's monicker on it, and the President's. The real deal, not rubber stamps. But don't hold your breath waiting for a 6th December invite, and you can DEFFO kiss goodbye to much charity from the British Embassy if you are a former Brit.

I found the naked tango-dancing in a peat bog the trickiest part of the process. The Koskenkorva test is much overrated. Only a 50 cl bottle and they give you half an hour AND a bucket.

[Caroline]

Hi,

Just want to know ( for the near futher), Do you have to speak good FINNISH to be a finnish citizen?Do they asked you to go for an interview in FINNISH? I think many years ago they do that.

Yes, fluency in Finnish or Swedish is required for applying for Finnish citizenship.

I'd better not comment too forcefully here, as my memory of it all is a bit dim, but back in the 1980s when I got naturalised, I was quite concerned about "the test", having confused it with the civil servants' requirement in Swedish, which IS pretty stiff. I seem to recall I had a brief chat with some bod from the University of Helsinki about this and that, and came away from it thinking that it was not that bad, and was basically "Stockmann Finnish" and no more. "Fluency" it wasn't.

I can't comment from personal experience yet; I was just quoting the board of language proficiency website requirements for naturalization.

http://www.oph.fi/english/SubPage.asp?path=447;490;5373

The National Certificate of Language Proficiency

The National Certificate of Language Proficiency is a test system planned for adults. The tasks measure language skills in practical situations, where an adult could be required to speak, listen to, write or read a foreign language - at home or abroad.
The test can be taken in English, Finnish, French, German, Italian, Russian, Saami, Spanish, Swedish.


I guess proficiency/fluency is relative. It is defined as "easy in speaking a language", but many people (myself included) speak a foreign language with ease even though there are a lot of grammatical constructions and verb conjugations/vocab. they are uncertain about.

But overall I get the impression that one has to know a little more than just "Terve, mitä sinulle kuuluu"..."kiitos" and missä on WC" in order to get the certificate....

[Tom and Jerry]

I posted these six levels of that test in answer of that guy who couldn't find his way into Helsinki. It is supposed to be level 3.
Level 3 is far from fluent, but with that you can read simple texts and you can keep up simple conversations.

Let's say you need to know something like 3000 words, the basic grammar rules (not all), and some simple greetings etc.

Look in the archive for level 3. Most students will achieve level 3 after 6 months - one year of studying a few hours a week.

[Slothrop]

Kansalaisuus vaatii suomen tai ruotsin kielen taitoja

Uusi kansalaisuuslaki astui voimaan 1.6.

Kesäkuun 1. päivästä 2003 voimaan astuneessa kansalaisuuslaissa (359/2003) määrätään, että ulkomaalaisella, ennen kuin hänelle voidaan myöntää Suomen kansalaisuus, tulee olla vähintään suomen tai ruotsin kielen tyydyttävä taito, tai suullisen kielitaidon sijasta vastaavan tasoinen suomalaisen viittomakielen taito.

Kielitaito osoitetaan suorittamalla yleinen kielitutkinto yleistasolla kolme, valtion kielitutkinto tyydyttävällä suullisella ja kirjallisella taidolla tai perusopetuksen oppimäärä suomi tai ruotsi äidinkielenä. Kielitaito voidaan osoittaa myös muulla koulusivistyksellä tai muulla tavalla, jos valtion kielitutkinnon tutkintotodistuksen antaja on arvioinut kielitaidon tason vastaavan kielitaitoedellytystä.

Tarkemmin tutkinnoista: Yleiset kielitutkinnot ja Valtion kielitutkinnot

3.
Ymmärtää pidempää puhetta ja keskeisen ajatuksen monista televisio- ja radio-ohjelmista, jos aihepiiri on suhteellisen tuttu. Ymmärtää tavallisia tekstejä, jotka eivät vaadi aiheen tuntemusta. Normaalitempoinen puhe ja vaativammat tekstit saattavat tuottaa vaikeuksia, jos puhejakso on pitkä ja aihepiiri vieras. Selviää tavallisimmissa käytännön puhetilanteissa ja pystyy kirjoittamaan yksinkertaista, yhtenäistä tekstiä tavallisista aiheista, vaikkakin kieliopilliset ja sanastolliset puutteet toisinaan vaikeuttavat ymmärtämistä. Hallitsee hyvin jokapäiväisiin tilanteisiin liittyvän sanaston ja peruskieliopin keskeiset rakenteet.

Their own translation - no guarantee of reliability (boldface is mine):

Understands longer stretches of speech and the central idea from many TV and radio programmes, if the topic area is relatively familiar. Understands ordinary texts that do not require knowledge of the subject. In the case of a longer section of speech and an unfamiliar topic, normal tempo speech and more demanding texts may cause difficulties. Can cope in the most common speech situations and is able to write simple, coherent text on everyday topics, even though grammatical and lexical inaccuracies may occasionally hinder comprehension. Has a good command of vocabulary related to everyday situations and of the key basic grammar structures.

So "getting by in Stockmann's" is just about it, though IMHO only a fool would speak anything but Swedish or English in Stockmann's. My point was that you will presumably have reached this level a) by the time you become eligible to start the whole process off, and b) that the various stages along the way - dealing with the tax authorities, social security, etc, etc. - will add to your knowledge, unless you shelter yourself overmuch by having a Finnish minder do it all for you.


Better watch plenty of Salatut elämät episodes. (No pain, no gain)

[Caroline]

So "getting by in Stockmann's" is just about it, though IMHO only a fool would speak anything but Swedish or English in Stockmann's.

Do Finnish speakers get treated differently in Stockmann? I haven't been in HKI in nearly 3 years. Up in this neck of the woods my DH and I almost always speak Finnish in Stockmann and neither of us has noticed any strange looks.

[Slothrop]

So "getting by in Stockmann's" is just about it, though IMHO only a fool would speak anything but Swedish or English in Stockmann's.

Do Finnish speakers get treated differently in Stockmann? I haven't been in HKI in nearly 3 years. Up in this neck of the woods my DH and I almost always speak Finnish in Stockmann and neither of us has noticed any strange looks.

No, I'm mostly kidding. The big downtown store has its share of Swedish-speaking customers and elderly Swedish-speaking staff, and the myth is that you get better service in Swedish - or if you look like an affluent foreign tourist. But it's probably no more than that.

Stockmann IS tempting, though - it's so EASY to slip back into English when you see some bright-eyed thing with a row of languages on her nametag that's as long as Rambo's campaign medal ribbons.