Another residence permit problem

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:39 am

Yeah, there is this "Nordic" thing that screws up the picture a bit. It is a sort of pre-EU "common area" basically working even today; so I can go to Norway and Iceland and basically work & live there w/o even having to show a passport (and vice versa). Though they'd eventually want some sort of picture ID. Picked up Norway and Iceland on purpose, as they are non-EU countries. So there is the "Nordic aspect" with Sweden.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

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Nathan Lillie
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Post by Nathan Lillie » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:32 am

Hi Wombat,

on your first point, I wasn't really saying that it is allowed - Im sure it's not, just that they don't seem to be tracking it. If you go out of the EU via a Finnish airport, you get an exit stamp saying when you left (one problem with overstaying), while other countries don't insist on an exit stamp. I'm not suggesting that anyone should do such an illegal thing, just pointing out that it seems to be possible.

My problem, and i'm not sure if this really was the problem under the meaning of the law you quote, was that my Finnish wife (or finance, at that time) wasn't resident in Finland, she was living in the US with me. We had employment ready when we came, but had actually been living and working in the US until the point we arrrived here. So I had been cohabitating with a citizen of Finland, but not a resident of Finland.

I specifically asked about getting the permit while in Finland and they told me I couldn't. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it was the best information I was able to glean at the time.


Wombat wrote:
Nathan Lillie wrote:Finland stamps your passport when you arrive and when you leave, but not when you leave to an EU country like Sweden. If you leave back to the US to get your permit via, say, Sweden, there is no way for them to know if you spent 3 months in Finland and 3 months in Sweden (legally), or 5 months and 29 days in Finland, and 1 day in Sweden.

That's actually not allowed, according to Section 13 of The Finnish Aliens Decree:

When counting the period, when the alien is not required to have a visa, the time spend in Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden during the last six months shall be deducted.

If you enter for three months, it's three months in total for all of the countries mentioned above. I saw in another post Nathan that you said that you had lived with a Finn for 5 years. Under Section 20 of The Finnish Aliens Act, your permit could have been issued here in Finland:

An alien who enters Finland without a residence permit may be issued a fixed-term residence permit in Finland if:

1) he has held Finnish citizenship or has at least one parent who is or has been a Finnish citizen by birth;

2) prior to entering Finland, he has lived with a spouse currently residing in Finland or continuously shared a household and cohabited without marriage with a person currently residing in Finland; or if

3) refusing a residence permit would be clearly unreasonable.


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:51 am

the principle is basically:
- cohabit in finland = apply in finland
- cohabit elsewhere = apply elsewhere
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


Wombat

Post by Wombat » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:17 pm

Nathan Lillie wrote:... was that my Finnish wife (or finance, at that time) wasn't resident in Finland, she was living in the US with me.

After your wife had permanently left the U.S. and returned to Finland, she would have been regarded as resident in Finland. Of course she would have to first have her details updated on the population register. Once this had been done, the law above applies.

What they don't allow is that if you had applied here and your wife was still in the U.S. Time spent cohabiting without marriage with a Finnish citizen while on a tourist visa doesn't count either, that's why the law states "prior to entering Finland". Problems occur when tourists arrive in Finland, meet a partner and wish to stay. The law doesn't really allow for that in which case they won't accept the application and ask that it be filed in the applicant's country of residence.

A little advice to whoever is reading this and in a similar situation. Whenever dealing with officials, ask for everything in writing. It's the only way to back up your claims. I've heard of too many heartbreak stories were couples have been told that "of course they'll accept your application in Finland" when such information is not correct.

It can save a few dollars unless of course you want those frequent flyer miles!
Last edited by Wombat on Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:24 pm

Yeah, and for all sue-happy americans (all other nations included, only you didn't have L.A.Law ) nothing given as advice or information in . is "written-down" information either. It is all heresay. Or rather: "this stori is not mine, but one night the nancy the spider came to my ear and whispered thus:"
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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