Moving out of Finland?

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Huijun
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Moving out of Finland?

Post by Huijun » Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:02 pm

Hello everyone! I have only been here for a short time and found that people are friendly. I am one of the foreigners living in Finland. I came from China for studying originally and I met my fiancé in the same class. Honestly I have not thought about living in this country for long at the first place. I have been planning to graduate as soon as possible and then go back home to work. I do not enjoy the extreme weather and rather simple life here, while I am facing the most difficult problem for everyone: employment.
I am graduating next week, to obtain a double degree in the business administration. The job hunting was a long and bitter process while I tried so many places and companies that I can’t remember where I’ve applied. I tried all kind of possibilities, from the field I’ve been studying to secretary, from restaurant waiting to building cleaning. I have only got negative answer so far and of course I was refused by language issue mainly. I have lived in the UK with my fiancé for one year and it was just so easy to find a job. At the moment I am so confused and very depressed by this long-time unemployed situation. It is also quite difficult to make friends with Finns while sometimes I am stared at as alien. People usually want to keep some distance from each other.
I truly love my man so right now I am facing the question of staying or not. Our wedding date has set in the next year, and it would make sense if we are both here to work until at least our wedding. What I really want to do is to go back to China, to find a decent job what I deserve with this education. My fiancé will also go to China if I want to move back permanently.
What I want to hear from all of you is, before I make any decision what do you suggest me to do with the job hunting in Finland? Is there possibility for English-speaking foreigner to work in the field of business management, marketing and logistics?
:?:



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PeterF
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Re: Moving out of Finland?

Post by PeterF » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:44 am

Huijun wrote: Honestly I have not thought about living in this country for long at the first place. I have been planning to graduate as soon as possible and then go back home to work.

I do not enjoy the extreme weather and rather simple life here, while I am facing the most difficult problem for everyone: employment.

I have only got negative answer so far and of course I was refused by language issue mainly. It is also quite difficult to make friends with Finns.
I truly love my man so right now I am facing the question of staying or not.
Our wedding date has set in the next year, and it would make sense if we are both here to work until at least our wedding.

What I really want to do is to go back to China, to find a decent job what I deserve with this education.
My fiancé will also go to China if I want to move back permanently.
Is there possibility for English-speaking foreigner to work in the field of business management, marketing and logistics?
:?:
I have cut away a lot of the items in the posting trying to get to the key points, because I read this posting many times and still am not sure if your real question is.. should I stick it out or go home to China now.?

I seem to read between the lines that if you had not met this guys you would be taking the first plane home to China anyway. And even that now you have a man here, as soon as you marry him you are going home to Chiina anyway..so an employer is only going to benifit from you skills for s few months.
If you are just looking for a part time job until you marry and return to China say so to the employer that might be easier.
If you dont plan to return to China then work hard on your Finnish language. Because... Solving the Unemployment problem in Finland for for someone who does not speak the language is very tough..and also you do not have any work experience yet.. you are a very new graduate in a tough market..your qualification/certifícate is only part of the needed CV to find full time work.
You use the phrase..." I really want to go back to China, to find a decent job what I deserve with this education"
Deserve?? why should you deserve any more than anyone else with the same certificates..are all the other students who are graduating with you going straight into a "Decent Job"?
The job market is a competition and there are other competitors who have just as good qualifications, and maybe even better than you...e.g. Can speak Fluent Finnish is more important in Finland than speaking fluent English and/or Chinese.
Any way Good luck.


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neil
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Post by neil » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:22 am

Hi,

It sounds like you have already made your decision based on the fact you could get a decent job in China. However, if you decide to stay here, you should consider:

- Does your partner have a good job and can he support you financially for the time you are unemployed?

- How much time do you want to give to finding a job here? It can take more than a year to find a career related job but you should be able to find a temporary job in the meantime fairly easily.

- Experience. How much do you have? I personally found universities paint this wonderful picture how great life will be once you graduate only to find its not that easy at all. Also bear in mind you are trying to enter employment at a time when economies are depressed growth in Europe will only be around 1% (this year).

- Realise your partner will probably be in exactly the same situation you are in here if you move to China. How will he feel about that?

Is the grass always greener on the other side of the fence?

Good luck in whatever you decide :)
Neil

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:09 am

Well, I can't add much to the previous authors. A few points though.

- Your location is 'Pori'. That is boondocks. Anything resembling civilization is inside Ring III. Including jobs.

- Language, but Finnish is easy? Go look in the kindergarten 5 year olds - they speak Finnish. Chinese is as easy I think - I bet all the kids in China speak Chinese at age 5 too... meaning that when you go to China your husband will get the same problem with language.

- Finns look as if you are an alien? In 'Pori' - you are one. People probably have not seen a live Chinese before. There has not been so many foreigners in Finland since the past 10-20 years. I would think as the only 'gweilo' in town your hubby might get a few stares in China if you decided to move to a provincial city like that? And yes, there is the thing about Finns being reserved. I think Finns do not appear friendly because their emotions are "real". Once you get a friend, it is a friend. But no pepsodent smiles before. People are shy also, and insecure of speaking foreign languages.

- Of the job market atleast in the Helsinki Polytechnic there was a special course dedicated to trade with China. (I am still kicking myself for not taking it). All the people there were more or less sought after because there is not so many people with knowledge. I would think companies would be fighting over you (not in Pori though). And you have a degree from a Finnish school which is also very important in Finland. The only advice I can give to you is to get on the language course.

Then again if you are adamant in going back to China after a year - why would anybody hire you for just a year? Just as you learn to do the stuff they need to train a replacement. In Finland hiring people is expensive so companies try to get on with as little staff as possible. Also with young women they are afraid you will start making children and go on maternity leave - that is also one reason not hiring.

Anyhow, I wish you both good luck. The economic situation is not as good as it could be and people are getting laid off here and there so just graduated students graduate straight to unemployment. They want someone who is 22 years old, with 15 years work experience of which 10 in management...
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:18 pm

neil wrote:Is the grass always greener on the other side of the fence?
Hei lähe mukaan vaan, tonne kylmään pohjolaan.
Mä näytän sulle pienen maan jossa oudolla tavalla irrotellaan.
Miltei nälkää näkevä, työtä tekevä
On pihdeissä siellä pikkuriikkinen ihmiseläjä
voo-oo, hei lähe mukaan, voo-oo, hei lähe mukaan

Tuu veroparatiisiin, jossa kiskotaan
Paratiisin, jossa kusetetaan
Paratiisiin jossa hitaasti sut kuristetaan.
Tuu veroparatiisiin, jossa kiskotaan
Paratiisin, jossa kusetetaan
Paratiisiin, jossa ei hanttiin panna ollenkaan
Ja taas maksetaan
Ei kannata turhaa hommii paiskoa
Kun se jotenkin kummasti lihottaa
Aina muiden lompakoita.
Vois vääntää itkua kun tässä
Paskassa on pakko korviaan myöten kahlata
voo-oo, hei lähe mukaan, voo-oo, hei lähe mukaan

Tuu veroparatiisiin, jossa kiskotaan
Paratiisin, jossa kusetetaan
Paratiisiin jossa hitaasti sut kuristetaan.
Tuu veroparatiisiin, jossa kiskotaan
Paratiisin, jossa kusetetaan
Paratiisiin, jossa ei hanttiin panna ollenkaan
Ja taas maksetaan
Nyt hymyile nätisti ja sano heipä-hei
Tuon leivän suusta rakas isänmaamme vei
Paratiisiin, solmuun väännetään
paratiisiin, vannetta kiristetään
paratiisiin, laskutaatanalla itketään
Paratiisiin, solmuun väännetään
paratiisiin, vannetta kiristetään
paratiisiin, laskutaatanalla itketään
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


Huijun
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Location: Pori

Re: Moving out of Finland?

Post by Huijun » Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:50 pm

You use the phrase..." I really want to go back to China, to find a decent job what I deserve with this education"
Deserve?? why should you deserve any more than anyone else with the same certificates..are all the other students who are graduating with you going straight into a "Decent Job"?
The job market is a competition and there are other competitors who have just as good qualifications, and maybe even better than you...e.g. Can speak Fluent Finnish is more important in Finland than speaking fluent English and/or Chinese.
Any way Good luck.

What I mean with a decent job is obviously different than your understanding. As a person who can not speak fluent Finnish, I have been refused to work as a cleaner, a laundry shop worker and so on. I do not expect or think I am extra valuable than others with the same certificates. The fact is that the language problem does narrow down my career. I can't ask for the job what I have been studying for, and have difficulties with even simply pyhsical job. I wonder if its really needed to speak fluent Finnish to deliver paper at 3am...

I didn't mean to find an one-year job in Finland. I have been always trying to find different kind of work and since I didn't find any by now, I have to consider the one year gap until the marriage.

I am currently applying for a weekend paper delivery job, again. Wish me luck![/quote]


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Sara
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Post by Sara » Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:56 pm

Why dont you look for jobs around your own language? Look for companies that do things like technical writing and just send them your CV.

I worked for Done Solutions last year and at the time they were looking for someone with English and Chinese.


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neil
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Post by neil » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:10 pm

Why not go around asking in bars if they want any bar staff? You could also try asking in hotels for work as a chambermaid or cleaning. As with all things here, its best to approach them directly. Dig out all the hotels in the city centre from the Yellow Pages and spend a day wandering around them all. If you can't manage that, then consider calling them on the phone. I know someone who worked at the Seaside Hotel nr Ruholahti last summer and she got the work pretty easily.

Also call Ravintola Extra (an agency) on +358 94762 8400 or http://www.extragroup.net and ask for an appointment so that you can 'sign up' with them. I worked for them last year and got a job about 3 hours after I signed up.
Neil

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Huijun
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To Neil

Post by Huijun » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:26 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! Actually I have tried all you said :wink:

We have had days with going through yellow page and wondering around the city. I suppose the problem is with the places where we were living and are living: Rauma and Pori.

I am still trying and having my fingers crossed.


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Richard
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Re: To Neil

Post by Richard » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:37 pm

Huijun wrote:Thanks for the suggestions! Actually I have tried all you said :wink:

We have had days with going through yellow page and wondering around the city. I suppose the problem is with the places where we were living and are living: Rauma and Pori.

I am still trying and having my fingers crossed.
Hi Huijun,

You say in your original post "My fiancé will also go to China if I want to move back permanently". Does this mean he is happy to or just prepared to. What are his job prospects in China? Can he speak chinese? Can he find work using only English? (I'm assuming the demand for Finnish is fairly low in China).

As you suggested the problem is the places you have looked. Is it worth moving to Helsinki for the year, it's not the promised land at present, but you'd definately stand a better chance of employment in my opinion.

Regards,

Richard.


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Hank W.
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Re: To Neil

Post by Hank W. » Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:53 am

Huijun wrote: I suppose the problem is with the places where we were living and are living: Rauma and Pori.
I'd have problems finding a job there... (heck, if I was as desparate to go to Rauma to find work, I'd been in Sweden already for a month...) Tell your hubby to either take the farm and start milking the cows at 5 or then get a grip and move to civilization. You cannot have the cake and eat it too.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


gavin

Re: To Neil

Post by gavin » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:00 am

Hank W. wrote:You cannot have the cake and eat it too.
As a rule, I'd agree with you. i.e. the jobs are in the city.

But it IS possible to work and live in the sticks... you just need to have the will to do it, and the suicidal tendancy to start your own business in Finland...


PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:21 am

Huijun...You are realy in a tough decision situation and there are many factors which are making it even tougher for you.
1: You are young and inexperienced and just about to graduate.
2:. Many others are about to graduate at the same time as you competition for work is tough.
3: You are in a foreign country where you dont speak the language and dont know many people or have many friends or contacts to help you.
4: The country that you are in has an unemployment problem with many lay off at the present time, jobs go to the local people first.
5. You do not really like living in this this country because you "do not enjoy the extreme weather and rather simple life here".
6. You live in an area where there is not much work/opportunity other than farming.
Now comes the key factor. You would normaly graduate and return to China to work....but..
You have met a boy in Pori that you intend to marry.
You have not told us much about him or his feelings.
Questions.:
Is he a Finn?
Is a he a local Pori boy?
Does he have a job or any chances of getting one in Pori area?
If not what are his thoughts on moving to a big city Helsinki or Oulu or Tampere.
If not then there is the move to China....
Can he speak Chinese? if not what work could he do in China?
If he is not Chinese does he really understand Chinese life style and traditions. e.g: Guanxi, Renqing, Bao, Neibu..etc etc.
I have been to China many times and I can assure that it is very difficult for a westerner to adjust and become accepted...much more difficult than you find adjusting to Finnish styles.
I wish I could offer more advice ..I feel that you are going to return to China with your man anyway..good luck.. I hope he can adjust...I could explain more to your man about China as seen through western eyes but I am a long way from Pori..and there are better experts than myself.


Huijun
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Post by Huijun » Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:56 pm

Questions.:
Is he a Finn?
Is a he a local Pori boy?
Does he have a job or any chances of getting one in Pori area?
If not what are his thoughts on moving to a big city Helsinki or Oulu or Tampere.
If not then there is the move to China....
Can he speak Chinese? if not what work could he do in China?
If he is not Chinese does he really understand Chinese life style and traditions. e.g: Guanxi, Renqing, Bao, Neibu..etc etc.
I have been to China many times and I can assure that it is very difficult for a westerner to adjust and become accepted...much more difficult than you find adjusting to Finnish styles.
I wish I could offer more advice ..I feel that you are going to return to China with your man anyway..good luck.. I hope he can adjust...I could explain more to your man about China as seen through western eyes but I am a long way from Pori..and there are better experts than myself.
My fiancé is a local Finn from Pori and he feels more comfortable to live here than any other place. We have been talking about moving to bigger cities such as Helsinki or Tampere, because he realised how difficult for me to find a job. Before we made any progress with the plan of moving to bigger place, he got a summer job offer from one big forwarding company in Pori. He has also gone through a long process of seeking a job and he didn't want to give up any chance to work. So, we moved to Pori for this short-term work and hoping there will be something else after this summer ends.

About which country should we live is the topic we discussed a lot. My fiancé has been China with me for two times and he speaks less Chinese than what I can in Finnish. He will definitely have difficulty with the language and living in China so he is rather prepared to go while he does like the country. It is possible for English-speaking person to find high management level job (if you are experienced) in China but won't be easy for the new graduates without Chinese language skill. But there is also a very positive job opportunity for all the foreigners: to be an English teacher. There is lack of different level of English teaching personnel, it doesn't really matter if you are qualified or not, native speaker or not. I have also heard that from some of the colleges in Beijing, small languages teacher for example Finnish teacher is in the shortage... I have been talking to my fiancé that if nothing else in China, there's at least one alternative to try in the campus. Isn't it better than unemployed?

I believe people always feel much more relax and comfortable with the environment where he is raised. My fiancé likes China but scared by the traffic and crowd, though he didn't even get involved much with the deeper part of our culture. The only reason for us of moving to another country is love, we should put both of us in good consideration. If you have a lot opinion about the life in China, we would be more than interesting to listen to you...

Which side of the grass is greener?


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:04 pm

If there is any chance for him to do studies in pedagogy - something on paper would help him in the teaching thing.

All grass is as green in the dark :mrgreen:
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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