Does my bf have to leave Finland ? Help!!

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littlegirl
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:53 am

Does my bf have to leave Finland ? Help!!

Post by littlegirl » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:50 pm

Hi all,
i have a very urgent issues needed to be settled down. my origin is Indian and the same as my bf. We stayed here together for 1.5 years. Now he got some problem with his study ( his permit is with student status and he didnt get enough credits to renew his visa ). Mine permit is working status and after half year i will apply for A type. Now he is in the situation that he might need to go back to India... but i dont want him to be away from me...
1).So what shall we do now ?
2).Can he got the permit which is dependent on me ? we have stayed together in Finland for 1.5 years, still 6 months to 2 years, will that be a problem ?
3).If he can apply the permit dependent on me, where he should apply ? here or India ?
4). Any other suggestion ???

It is really urgent. Please help !

Thanks.

worried gilr :cry:



Does my bf have to leave Finland ? Help!!

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PeterF
Posts: 4144
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:00 pm

Post by PeterF » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:18 pm

Where are you?
Our expert Imigration "Hank" is in Pasila at an exhibition until Sunday.
I will be meeting him tomorrow...
But if you are in the Pasila area you can find Hank on the Friends Of South Africa Stand the exhibition centre.
I would also suggest that you contact your own Embassy who might be able to advise.


littlegirl
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:53 am

Thanks Peter

Post by littlegirl » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:23 pm

Thanks Peter.. I am in Tempere these days and thus have to miss the chance to meet you or Hank... I hope Hank can take a look at this post and give me some suggestion... I dont think my country Embassy can help a lot in this case... if anyone knows any info, please share !
Thanks!!

Worried Girl :cry:


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Sara
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Post by Sara » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:27 pm

Do you work full time? Would it be enough to support him on?

The best thing would be to call or go and see the people that deal with the permits. Take everything you might need to show them and Im sure they will do their best to help you.

Im afraid we cant really answer this one for you, though we would love to tell you it will be ok. Go and see them as soon as you can.


littlegirl
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Yes, I am working full time

Post by littlegirl » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:34 pm

Yes, I am working full time and my job is still stable. The income should be enough to support two of us and we both have savings in Finland.

The officials in the police office usually will stick to this and that rules and no negotation can be done with them....

worried girl :cry:


PeterF
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Thanks Peter

Post by PeterF » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:36 pm

littlegirl wrote:... I dont think my country Embassy can help a lot in this case..:

Your embassy can certainly answer your question number 3.
I will try and contact Hank tonight but his mobile is switched off now.
As Sara says the people in the imigration department at Tampere Police Station can tell you the laws/regulations but they will not tell you how or if it is possible to find a way around them.
They are open until 16.00 today, give them a try. If you are working here you are paying taxes and are entittled to their help.


littlegirl
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:53 am

Thanks Peter again!

Post by littlegirl » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:40 pm

Yes, pls help me contact Hank.

Really appreciate for your prompt reply !

I will try the police office also.


PeterF
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Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:00 pm

Post by PeterF » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:08 pm

I sent Hank an SMS asking him to call me


dreamer
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Location: Espoo

Re: Does my bf have to leave Finland ? Help!!

Post by dreamer » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:24 pm

littlegirl wrote:2).Can he got the permit which is dependent on me ? we have stayed together in Finland for 1.5 years, still 6 months to 2 years, will that be a problem ?


Have you checked UVI pages? They say at least 2 years of cohabitation are required:

UVI wrote:Your cohabitant may be granted a permit if you have
been living together for at least two years. If you have
a child together, a shorter period will suffice. You will
have to produce reliable evidence of the time you have
been living together, such as an extract from the
register of occupants of the house where you live, or
an extract from the population register, or some other
certificate issued by the authorities. If you have been
living together on a temporary basis, turn and turn
about in each other's country, for example, on holiday
or while travelling, this does not provide sufficient
grounds for a residence permit. A cohabitant cannot
obtain a permit if one of the partners is already married
to another person.


But it might be different case if has already been living in Finland for a while.
Good luck with sorting things out!

here's the UVI pages in English, maybe you cand dig out more:
http://www.uvi.fi/englanti/oleskelu.html


PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:39 pm

OK Hank called me and we discussed this ..he will try and get to his PC later tonight and in the meantime give the case more thought..but pending that his initial reaction is that the "two year co-habbiting law" is the governing factor when it come to GF/BF relationships. See Deamers post which is quite correct.
You have to prove that you have been living together for two years..
What he is not sure of is if that 2 years has to be in Finland i.e. If you had been living together before you came here and that you came here together.

Note the clause:
"If you have been living together on a temporary basis, turn and turn
about in each other's country, for example, on holiday
or while travelling, this does not provide sufficient
grounds for a residence permit".. NB:that does not say "living together in your original country of residence"

So, can you produce "evidence" that you lived together in India for at least 6 months before you came here together.?.note I did not say proff only evidence. :wink:
Other than that you seem to have but two choices..BF goes back to India and applies to come back here again.. (if he cannot apply while still here...btw.when does his visa expire?)

Or ..daah di daah ding dong..You get married : :P and live happlily ever after...good luck..


Wombat

Post by Wombat » Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:18 pm

Yes, well Section 18 b of The Finnish Aliens Act states that:

People who continuously share a household and cohabit in a relationship resembling marriage shall be deemed comparable to spouses. A requirement for this comparison shall be they have cohabited for a minimum of two years, except if they have a common child.

But, but, but, under Section 20, there's this great subparagraph:

refusing a residence permit would be clearly unreasonable.

Each application is looked at on a case by case basis. It's possible to argue that 18 months is sufficient and that it would be clearly unreasonable not to grant a permit. I know of cases where 9 months was a sufficient period of cohabiting without marriage for a permit to be granted.


littlegirl
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:53 am

Thanks Wambat!!!!

Post by littlegirl » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:36 pm

I am really glad to see this post !!! It did give me some hope !!!!
We can prove that we have stayed in one apartment in Finland for one and half year.... and we bought a very small apartment in Finland ( using our savings ) as we planned to stay here for long... will that be put into consideration ???
Btw, when is the '9-month' case ? years ago or recently ? the policy here keeps on changing....

Millions thanks to any reply !!!


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distantspaces
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Location: Kamppi, Helsinki

Post by distantspaces » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:49 pm

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your problem. I can think of only 2 solutions:

-He gets a job fast, and applies on the basis of that. I know this is easier said than done. Getting a job in Finland is not a 2-day thing, but it could help you both out of the mess. I had heard of one case when a person on a student visa could not get a renewal (because he did not finish 20 credits). However, while his application was under appeal, he managed to land himself a job, and the police had to give him a new permit based on his job - even though his study credits were not enough.

- Get married. That would make your case much stronger. Atleast it is a lot safer option than to apply as a GF-BF relationship.

And well, try to do it all while he is here. I am not sure what the police policy is about this (if they let him apply here). However, as you and I both can imagine, once he is back in India, the Finnish Embassy there would try their level best to refuse him a residence permit. AND, decisions offered by the foreign mission are generally not appealable. Atleast he has a chance to appeal a wrong decision while he is here.

I fear that once he is back in India, and tries to apply on a dependent permit, simply based on living together, he won't get it. Marriage might solve this, and chances of getting a permit are much stronger, if you have all your papers in place.

Why don't you also check with the Finnish Embassy in Chanakya Puri, Delhi? Their website was at http://www.finembindia.com , but seems to be dead now. I have this old contact information, but not sure if it has changed since:

Nayaya Marg, Chanakyapuri
New Delhi 110021
Tel: 011 6115258 Fax: 011 6886713
Email: [email protected]

I hope this info helps and you two can stay together....


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:36 am

Again- am I some 'Deux ex Machina'

Sorry, magic answers ready

The option given here of getting married = is what I'd suggest you do.

If you do not want say your parents see this marriage happening or something like that, is one paper you need to sign here in Finland, but it is a legally binding document in the EU. Now the other option is to present cohabitation documents, so you can fulfill the 2-year requirement. However what I understand in India there is no tradition of cohabitation so the proof might be hard to come by?

That being done I cannot say if you get yes or no even married, but the mathematical probability will change. Sorry even if Peter has such high confidence in me I do not know a definite answer.
Last edited by Hank W. on Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


Wombat

Post by Wombat » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:05 am

I have to disagree with this !"#¤% advice to get married. If you read it again the law states:

People who continuously share a household and cohabit in a relationship resembling marriage shall be deemed comparable to spouses.

When applying for a residence permit, cohabitation without marriage is viewed exactly the same as if the couple was married providing the requirements are met. The Finnish Aliens Act is clear on this in several places. What is traditional or not in India in regard to cohabiting without marriage has no bearing in Finland.

When you apply for your boyfriend's residence permit, be sure to document in full the relationship, the date when you began to cohabit without marriage and any additional information that you feel is important. This should be in the form of a letter attached to the application and signed by both you and your boyfriend. Your boyfriend must also supply details that he has the necessary funds to support himself. It's important that in all the documentation your boyfriend uses the word spouse to refer to you and not girlfriend.


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