Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

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Jukka Aho
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:52 am

tuulen wrote:
Jukka Aho wrote:...In practice, all this matters very little in so far as the daily life in Finland is concerned. Except when a group of young Finnish men in their 20s gather together, from time to time, the recent “shared” military service experience may suddenly pop up, as a topic of discussion, and people will begin reminiscing about their service time, usually telling colorful (or colored) anecdotes about their weirdest experiences while “in the forces”. (It’s a Finnish thing.)
Honestly, I think military experience goes far beyond being only a "Finnish" thing, and goes far beyond one's 20s, as a lifelong experience.

The smartest and the stupidest all get mixed into one group, and that group learns to depend on each other for their lives.

There is no college or university which can teach that kind of experience, as only the military can do that.
Of course. I did not mean to imply that this would be a uniquely Finnish view or experience. It is easy to see how such experiences can (and will) be shared and appreciated by all who have “served their country”. (Although it should be noted here that in modern Finnish context, “serving your country” just means practicing for the worst-case scenario; not being hauled to remote countries for missions. Finns do missions abroad, such as in UN peacekeeper operations and in the ISAF and the like, but this is voluntary and professional; conscripts doing their compulsory service are not involved. So Finnish conscripts and reservists, except those who have later on actually voluntarily served abroad on peace-keeping missions, do not really have actual “war stories” to tell to each other; only stories about the time when they were in basic training for their prospective war-time duties.)

What I meant was simply that in Finland, a very large percentage of men “automatically” share that common experience of having been trained in the military, by the force of law and custom, so it’s easy to start a casual discussion about your experiences on the assumption that the others have most likely experienced similar things and can immediately relate to the stories, military slang or expressions, or whatever. In countries which do not have compulsory service and where a large number or even majority of men have never served, this topic might not come up as readily, frequently, or casually.


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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

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Jukka Aho
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:33 am

Jukka Aho wrote:
freedomforever wrote:So I think I have found the answer to the question I was looking for: if I migrated to Finland and became a citizen sometime in the future, I wouldn't be eligible for any kind of "service" as I'm over 30.
That is correct. (Asevelvollisuuslaki, 37 §: ”Velvollisuus suorittaa varusmiespalvelusta rauhan aikana päättyy sen vuoden lopussa, jona asevelvollinen täyttää 30 vuotta.”)
Coming back to this just not to miss an important detail: the above Finnish phrase (a quote from the relevant law about conscription and national service) says:

“The obligation to carry out one’s military service duty, during time of peace, runs out at the end of the year during which the conscript will turn 30 years old.”

In other words, should a state of war be declared, it will be a different situation then, and even those over 30 who have not previously served could be drafted, trained and ordered to the front line. On the other hand, state of war does not remove anyone’s medical diagnoses, although it will likely cause them to be (re)viewed with higher scrutiny.
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tuulen
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by tuulen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:40 am

Jukka Aho wrote:...What I meant was simply that in Finland, a very large percentage of men “automatically” share that common experience of having been trained in the military, by the force of law and custom, so it’s easy to start a casual discussion about your experiences on the assumption that the others have most likely experienced similar things and can immediately relate to the stories, military slang or expressions, or whatever. In countries which do not have compulsory service and where a large number or even majority of men have never served, this topic might not come up as readily, frequently, or casually.
:lol:

In US Army I was trained on a number of weapons, including rifles, hand grenades, anti-tank weapons and more, but it was impossible to ignore the fact that those same weapons could be used against me, too. I was given lethal firepower, but I could face lethal firepower, too.

Military experience is not intellectual, but goes right down into one's bones.

My point here is not to start any wars, but to say that the military offers a unique experience, not matched by any intellectual education.


Jukka Aho
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:01 am

tuulen wrote:My point here is not to start any wars, but to say that the military offers a unique experience, not matched by any intellectual education.
Yes, that’s one of the points which is often made in Finnish public debate, too, in support of the current conscription-based military system and as an example of its beneficial effects to the nation as whole. (Or at least a certain percentage of the other half of the nation.) Not sure if it could convincingly serve as the sole rationale for funding and operating a conscription-based military, though.
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tuulen
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by tuulen » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:01 am

Jukka Aho wrote:
tuulen wrote:My point here is not to start any wars, but to say that the military offers a unique experience, not matched by any intellectual education.
Yes, that’s one of the points which is often made in Finnish public debate, too, in support of the current conscription-based military system and as an example of its beneficial effects to the nation as whole. (Or at least a certain percentage of the other half of the nation.) Not sure if it could convincingly serve as the sole rationale for funding and operating a conscription-based military, though.
Militaries are ancient, beginning thousands of years ago, all around the world. Yet, it has been said that soldiers often, not in every case but often, are the last people who seek a military solution to conflicts. Unfortunately, it seems that whenever a nation tries to eliminate their military defenses then some other nation comes along and tries to take their land. That has happened a countless number of times during world history. So, at least for now, militaries apparently are necessary.

I like the idea of having a United Nations, as a way for nations to recognize and to settle their disputes. Unfortunately, it appears that UN is quite limited at this time, a good organization in theory but not particularly effective in practice. Then again, the world is a big place with many different people, and so perhaps it will take a long time for UN to become globally credible, perhaps much longer than only the several decades which UN has existed.


Rob A.
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Rob A. » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:14 am

tuulen wrote:Militaries are ancient, beginning thousands of years ago, all around the world. Yet, it has been said that soldiers often, not in every case but often, are the last people who seek a military solution to conflicts. Unfortunately, it seems that whenever a nation tries to eliminate their military defenses then some other nation comes along and tries to take their land. That has happened a countless number of times during world history. So, at least for now, militaries apparently are necessary.
:D Well, I think you might be looking at ancient history with a bit too modern a lens....ancient peoples were not always so neatly "bundled" into nations in the modern sense.... and typically the government structures, such as they were, were intended to meet the needs of the rulers...whether autocrat or oligarchic...not the "people".

Often ancient armies; generals AND soldiers, wanted war for the opportunities it would provide for wealth accumulation...you know, looting and pillaging the cities they attacked... Often the "generals" would act almost unilaterally .... Because of the slower rate of communication, if they were "successful", assuming they were astute enough to pick the right target, they would present their rulers with a nice little "fait accompli"....if they were unsuccessful, they often didn't survive to worry about it anyway.... :D
tuulen wrote: I like the idea of having a United Nations, as a way for nations to recognize and to settle their disputes. Unfortunately, it appears that UN is quite limited at this time, a good organization in theory but not particularly effective in practice. Then again, the world is a big place with many different people, and so perhaps it will take a long time for UN to become globally credible, perhaps much longer than only the several decades which UN has existed.

Well, yes...the UN is a work-in-progress.... As all humans are the same, eventually, assuming mankind survives microbes, volcanoes, asteroids, and whatever, workable...or maybe at least better, world-wide institutions will be developed....


Jukka Aho
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Jukka Aho » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:48 am

Rob A. wrote:As all humans are the same, eventually, assuming mankind survives microbes, volcanoes, asteroids,
I’m pretty sure the microbes will survive mankind... (actually, it’s one of the few things I’m sure of!)
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tuulen
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by tuulen » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:29 am

Rob A. wrote::D Well, I think you might be looking at ancient history with a bit too modern a lens....ancient peoples were not always so neatly "bundled" into nations in the modern sense.... and typically the government structures, such as they were, were intended to meet the needs of the rulers...whether autocrat or oligarchic...not the "people".
Well, I used the term nations in a broad sense, but in whatever tribal form they could have originally taken eventually nations were formed.


Rob A.
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Rob A. » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:35 am

Jukka Aho wrote:
Rob A. wrote:As all humans are the same, eventually, assuming mankind survives microbes, volcanoes, asteroids,
I’m pretty sure the microbes will survive mankind... (actually, it’s one of the few things I’m sure of!)
:D

But I'm guessing this is how it will end for humans....the Yellowstone Super Volcano... this would make an Icelandic volcano seem like a godsend....:D

Oh...and according to the "wind-up merchants", the Yellowstone monster is overdue for an eruption....:lol:


Jukka Aho
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Jukka Aho » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:33 pm

Rob A. wrote:But I'm guessing this is how it will end for humans....the Yellowstone Super Volcano... this would make an Icelandic volcano seem like a godsend....:D
Maybe this will be the way... but I’m going to be disappointed if the soundtrack isn’t there when it happens.
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Pursuivant
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:16 am

Jukka Aho wrote: “The obligation to carry out one’s military service duty, during time of peace, runs out at the end of the year during which the conscript will turn 30 years old.”
Unless you are in a "designated wartime unit" and you have gotten chevrons... but they give up at 40 and switch you to the reserves
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


tamiya14
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by tamiya14 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:44 pm

Hi there,

I will be marrying my Finnish girlfriend and would like to know do I still need to serve the 6 months Army when I've already served 2 years of mandatory army in Singapore? I am 24 years old.

Thanks!


interleukin
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by interleukin » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:54 pm

I will be marrying my Finnish girlfriend
Marying a Finn does not change your citizenship to Finnish. So no, you don't need to.
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rinso
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by rinso » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:14 pm

interleukin wrote:
I will be marrying my Finnish girlfriend
Marying a Finn does not change your citizenship to Finnish. So no, you don't need to.
But when you apply for Finnish citizenship you indeed can expect an invitation.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:46 pm

He'll be on the threshold of "too old" besidescwhich serving in a foreign military is also an excuse...
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


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