Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citizen?

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betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:44 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:
Rosamunda wrote:Isn't it so that if a someone with dual citizenship has already completed military service in their own country (EU?) they are exempt in Finland. It's like double taxation - they don't expect you to give twice.
This seems to be tricky. http://www.usp.fi/ajanko/index2.php?sivu=320
The rule is that if you have dual citizenships and your permanent living address is not in Finland, then you are exempt. The thing with serving somewhere else is a case-by-case kind of thing; I cannot find a concrete official source that says you are exempt. Only a few official sources say that you may apply for exemption.
That being said, a friend of mine from Switzerland had already served a while ago in his country. Last year, he got his Finnish citizenship and was called up for service in Finland a bit after that. He applied for exemption, but it was rejected on the grounds of him having "close ties Finland and Finland being your permanent home".
Here's the legislation that allows one to apply for exemption if military service has been done elsewhere:

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 1438#L7P74
Suomen kansalaiseksi otettu toisen valtion kansalainen sekä Suomen kansalainen, jolla on tai on ollut myös toisen valtion kansalaisuus, vapautetaan hakemuksesta varusmiespalveluksen suorittamisesta rauhan aikana, jos asianomainen on sanotussa valtiossa suorittanut asevelvollisen rauhanaikaiseen palvelusvelvollisuuteen kuuluvaa palvelusta vähintään neljä kuukautta.



Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

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Beep_Boop
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Beep_Boop » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:27 pm

Very interesting. It explicitly mentions that the person should be exempt.
I wonder on what actual legal grounds were used to deny the Swiss guy exemption.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


Rosamunda
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Rosamunda » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:04 pm

...and maybe the army would even use that clause to actively prevent "new" citizens from doing conscription. For budget reasons , security reasons, safety, language etc.. whatever. And as far as officer training is concerned, I don't think there is a shortage of applicants in Finland. if anything it is quite competitive.


betelgeuse
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:14 pm

Rosamunda wrote:...and maybe the army would even use that clause to actively prevent "new" citizens from doing conscription. For budget reasons , security reasons, safety, language etc.. whatever. And as far as officer training is concerned, I don't think there is a shortage of applicants in Finland. if anything it is quite competitive.
Doesn't work because the section says "hakemuksesta".


SOF
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by SOF » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:09 pm

Rosamunda wrote:...and maybe the army would even use that clause to actively prevent "new" citizens from doing conscription. For budget reasons , security reasons, safety, language etc.. whatever. And as far as officer training is concerned, I don't think there is a shortage of applicants in Finland. if anything it is quite competitive.
I'm quite alright with staying a simple soldier mate, not dreaming of evolving in the army to high levels, i just wanna serve, it ain't about the money - i just love the job.


Upphew
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:27 am

SOF wrote:
Rosamunda wrote:...and maybe the army would even use that clause to actively prevent "new" citizens from doing conscription. For budget reasons , security reasons, safety, language etc.. whatever. And as far as officer training is concerned, I don't think there is a shortage of applicants in Finland. if anything it is quite competitive.
I'm quite alright with staying a simple soldier mate, not dreaming of evolving in the army to high levels, i just wanna serve, it ain't about the money - i just love the job.
Not gonna happen then. There are basically no paid grunts in Finnish army, we use conscripts for that. Either you are officer or some kind of specialist, or peace keeper, if you want to get a job in army.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


SOF
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by SOF » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:48 am

Upphew wrote:
SOF wrote:
Rosamunda wrote:...and maybe the army would even use that clause to actively prevent "new" citizens from doing conscription. For budget reasons , security reasons, safety, language etc.. whatever. And as far as officer training is concerned, I don't think there is a shortage of applicants in Finland. if anything it is quite competitive.
I'm quite alright with staying a simple soldier mate, not dreaming of evolving in the army to high levels, i just wanna serve, it ain't about the money - i just love the job.
Not gonna happen then. There are basically no paid grunts in Finnish army, we use conscripts for that. Either you are officer or some kind of specialist, or peace keeper, if you want to get a job in army.
I tried to find out some info about the peace keepers... but nothing really, can you give some more info about them ?


Upphew
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:55 am

SOF wrote:I tried to find out some info about the peace keepers... but nothing really, can you give some more info about them ?
There is a lot of info at www.puolustusvoimat.fi ...in Finnish of course.
"Tarvitsemme hakijoiksi lisää mm nosturinkuljettajia, kylmälaiteasentajia ja kokkeja sotilaallisen kriisinhallinnan toimintavalmiuteen. Edellä mainittujen ammattiryhmien tehtäviä on mm Libanonissa UNIFIL- operaatiossa. Lisäksi erityistä tarvetta on mm. vaunukoulutetuille (johtajat, ampujat, ajajat), tarkka-ampujakoulutetuille, raivaajakoulutetuille (EOD2) sekä lääkintämiehiksi (Combat Medic) koulutetuille reserviläisille."
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


SOF
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by SOF » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:57 am

Upphew wrote:
SOF wrote:I tried to find out some info about the peace keepers... but nothing really, can you give some more info about them ?
There is a lot of info at http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi ...in Finnish of course.
"Tarvitsemme hakijoiksi lisää mm nosturinkuljettajia, kylmälaiteasentajia ja kokkeja sotilaallisen kriisinhallinnan toimintavalmiuteen. Edellä mainittujen ammattiryhmien tehtäviä on mm Libanonissa UNIFIL- operaatiossa. Lisäksi erityistä tarvetta on mm. vaunukoulutetuille (johtajat, ampujat, ajajat), tarkka-ampujakoulutetuille, raivaajakoulutetuille (EOD2) sekä lääkintämiehiksi (Combat Medic) koulutetuille reserviläisille."
That's great, but i don't know a word in finnish yet.


Rosamunda
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:18 pm

SOF wrote: I tried to find out some info about the peace keepers... but nothing really, can you give some more info about them ?
You can get into the Peacekeepers through conscription but first you need to get selected into eg the Rapid Deployment Force (Pioneers/Engineers) based in Sakyla. That's not so easy, they don't take many each year - maybe 60. After the basic training (about 6-7 weeks) the real training begins. It is a one-year programme including training in partner countries such as Norway and the Baltics. Only after that is it possible to apply to the Peacekeepers. All the training is in Finnish but good English is also required (and other languages are useful).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_R ... ment_Force


SOF
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Re: Do you have to serve Finnish Army as a naturalized citiz

Post by SOF » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:25 pm

Rosamunda wrote:
SOF wrote: I tried to find out some info about the peace keepers... but nothing really, can you give some more info about them ?
You can get into the Peacekeepers through conscription but first you need to get selected into eg the Rapid Deployment Force (Pioneers/Engineers) based in Sakyla. That's not so easy, they don't take many each year - maybe 60. After the basic training (about 6-7 weeks) the real training begins. It is a one-year programme including training in partner countries such as Norway and the Baltics. Only after that is it possible to apply to the Peacekeepers. All the training is in Finnish but good English is also required (and other languages are useful).
Sounds like a long process... I actually am quite fond of going on peacekeeping missions, just last week a turned down an offer for a PSD job in Afghanistan, cause I've made the decision to move to Finland and be with my girl. My english is on a very decent level, Finnish - I guess i will learn while waiting for citizenship which in best case cant'be lesser than 3.5 years. My mother language is bulgarian, which I don't think will do them much good, our guys arent very active anymore in the peacekeeping missions, they keep a platoon-sized group of 60-80 men in Kandahar, and that's about it.


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