SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

How to? Read other's experiences. Find useful advice on shipping, immigration, residence permits, visas and more.
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rinso
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by rinso » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:10 am

As I said earlier, We came in January 2008 and filed visa in February, ( My husband had a job in Computer IT company and they wanted him to come as soon as possible, so we both came as tourist, and we both had visa from January till April
Well, you didn't do it by the book. So they get confused and put your application on the pile "difficult cases". And losing your passport didn't improve the situation.
You really need professional help with this.

And indeed if you go to Russia for your passport, make sure that you can come back. If you overstayed your tourist visa (you did) they might refuse you a new one.
They won't kick you out if an application is being processed, but they don't need to let you in when you leave on your own account.



Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

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Pursuivant
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:15 pm

Parthiv wrote:We are not illegal. As I said earlier, We came in January 2008 and filed visa in February, ( My husband had a job in Computer IT company and they wanted him to come as soon as possible, so we both came as tourist, and we both had visa from January till April, we did not file work permit from India or from Russia as they said it might take longer
They're idiots. It takes longer time to apply in Finland - besides which you are supposed to apply from abroad and not in Finland so thats one reason to deny the permit you apply in the wrong place.

Amnd if your husband has been doing any work its illegal.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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raamv
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by raamv » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:00 am

yea I really wonder how the husband is able to work and get paid if he has not got his resident permit based on work.
Does not add up..
so..coming in a Tourist visa -> changing to work permit -> having baby ...
Seems kinda shady in Finland's migri's eyes..
Cant you apply for a passport from the Russian Embassy here? thats very strange that you cant do that here since you are a tourist here ..?? gets even more confusing.. :| :?
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Darshnik
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Darshnik » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:28 am

I agree, there is something wrong in this story. Can she cross the border without passport ? If she lost the passport after filing the police complaint she can get a new one from her embassy.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."

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odon
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by odon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:20 am

Pursuivant wrote:
Parthiv wrote:We are not illegal. As I said earlier, We came in January 2008 and filed visa in February, ( My husband had a job in Computer IT company and they wanted him to come as soon as possible, so we both came as tourist, and we both had visa from January till April, we did not file work permit from India or from Russia as they said it might take longer
They're idiots. It takes longer time to apply in Finland - besides which you are supposed to apply from abroad and not in Finland so thats one reason to deny the permit you apply in the wrong place.

Amnd if your husband has been doing any work its illegal.
there is no need for such strong works "idiots"....get off your high stool!!

the people who take the forms at the police station do not say the right procedure...they should have applied it in their country ie..and put a letter to state the urgency...!! but who comes here does not know that!!

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odon
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by odon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:23 am

i did my first job here, without a valid stamp of residence....as they told me to go back and put the application in my home country,

but because i had a work permit by the labour ministry...my employer said, u work, and appeal for the visa to be issued here!!

so no visa(residence permit) but work permit......different thing.....

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Pursuivant
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:38 am

there is no need for such strong works "idiots".
Yes there is because the company is full of idiots if they claim its faster to apply wrongly. As you can see it has not happened. Now who are the idiots in charge of this mess = the idiots in the company who gave the idiot advice. So its *their* problem. Not mine nor the Finnish governments to rectify the situation, get a lawyer etc...

Loosing the passport in the train is an accident, that really can't be blamed on anything. Russian officials again being obtuse that is a "Russian problem", hence the need for a lawyer who knows both bureaucracies. Russians taught Finns the bureaucracy so its the need for the right paper in the right order as always.
but who comes here does not know that!!
Need is to know. Need to read the rules. Need to understand the rules. Need to obey the rules. Outcome is usually far better.
odon wrote: but because i had a work permit by the labour ministry...my employer said, u work, and appeal for the visa to be issued here!!
so no visa(residence permit) but work permit......different thing.....
You got lucky - remember that "stupid UVI decision" guy accusing us for being communists as he got his boomeranged?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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odon
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by odon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 am

Pursuivant wrote:
there is no need for such strong works "idiots".
Yes there is because the company is full of idiots if they claim its faster to apply wrongly. As you can see it has not happened. Now who are the idiots in charge of this mess = the idiots in the company who gave the idiot advice. So its *their* problem. Not mine nor the Finnish governments to rectify the situation, get a lawyer etc...

Loosing the passport in the train is an accident, that really can't be blamed on anything. Russian officials again being obtuse that is a "Russian problem", hence the need for a lawyer who knows both bureaucracies. Russians taught Finns the bureaucracy so its the need for the right paper in the right order as always.
but who comes here does not know that!!
Need is to know. Need to read the rules. Need to understand the rules. Need to obey the rules. Outcome is usually far better.
odon wrote: but because i had a work permit by the labour ministry...my employer said, u work, and appeal for the visa to be issued here!!
so no visa(residence permit) but work permit......different thing.....
You got lucky - remember that "stupid UVI decision" guy accusing us for being communists as he got his boomeranged?

The "idiots" are the people who accept the application.... at the front desk!! they should be schooled to guide the applicant to the right place to put the application.....as it happened with me, they took the application, sat on it for 3 months and then said i should put it in my home country, ok! that is cool but inform the applicant the prosedure well in advance, not after taking the application and the fees and wait 3 months ...hey! sorry!! u put it in the wrong place!!

i was not lucky! i just pointed out this argument to them in court and got my visa issued here!! only after a 8 months wait, of court and lawyers....
i was pointing out the system, not the law....the people working in such places....should get at least a working knowledge of visas and prosedures....there at the front office, before it goes to the person upstairs who looks at it after 3 months!!
:roll: :roll:

Upphew
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:51 pm

odon wrote:
The "idiots" are the people who accept the application.... at the front desk!! they should be schooled to guide the applicant to the right place to put the application.....as it happened with me, they took the application, sat on it for 3 months and then said i should put it in my home country, ok! that is cool but inform the applicant the prosedure well in advance, not after taking the application and the fees and wait 3 months ...hey! sorry!! u put it in the wrong place!!

i was not lucky! i just pointed out this argument to them in court and got my visa issued here!! only after a 8 months wait, of court and lawyers....
i was pointing out the system, not the law....the people working in such places....should get at least a working knowledge of visas and prosedures....there at the front office, before it goes to the person upstairs who looks at it after 3 months!!
:roll: :roll:
Bureaucracy is machine just like a car is machine. If I refuel car by pouring gas to the carburetor and my car fails I don't go around yelling how carburetors shoud be schooled and guided to tell user to refuel by putting gas to gastank. Especially if manual says how one apply for residence/refuel a car.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

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odon
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by odon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Upphew wrote:
Bureaucracy is machine just like a car is machine. If I refuel car by pouring gas to the carburetor and my car fails I don't go around yelling how carburetors shoud be schooled and guided to tell user to refuel by putting gas to gastank. Especially if manual says how one apply for residence/refuel a car.
The problem is "the manual" is not there, only some forms and some guidence to application submission....if there was a clear cut manuel of immigration and residence then at least people would not be running around like headless chickens!!, nor do the people who sit at the front office know the basic prosedures...to follow.....the car and a human procedure of bureaucracy cannot be conpared!!

interleukin
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by interleukin » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:04 pm

The problem is "the manual" is not there,
So you would sit down and drive in a car you have never used before and without a drivers licence and assume that it will all be fine because there was no manual around telling you otherwise?
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Upphew
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Upphew » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:44 pm

odon wrote: The problem is "the manual" is not there, only some forms and some guidence to application submission....if there was a clear cut manuel of immigration and residence then at least people would not be running around like headless chickens!!, nor do the people who sit at the front office know the basic prosedures...to follow.....the car and a human procedure of bureaucracy cannot be conpared!!
Front office is local Finnish embassy.

What more you need besides forms to fill and guidance to fill and file them? Someone to hold your hand?
Guidance from migri.fi:
"Working in Finland
An alien who intends to take up paid employment in Finland usually needs a residence permit for an employed person. A person engaged in an independent business or profession in Finland must have a residence permit for a self-employed person."
"Flowchart: residence permit for an employed person and a self-employed person":
"A residence permit for an employed person can be applied after getting employment in Finland. A self-employed applicant must attach a business plan to theapplication. The residence permit must usually be applied for before entering Finland."

Does people just jump on a plane and decide that everything is going to be fine? Some planning and research maybe, please?
Ok, I'll give you that "clear cut manual" bit, as those texts I quoted read "usually" and some cultures may teach that everyone is special. And I read those immigration pages and pdfs now, so there might be some improvement since you and others have read them.
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.

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Pursuivant
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:16 pm

odon wrote:The "idiots" are the people who accept the application.... at the front desk!! they should be schooled to guide the applicant to the right place to put the application.....as it happened with me, they took the application, sat on it for 3 months and then said i should put it in my home country, ok! that is cool but inform the applicant the prosedure well in advance, not after taking the application and the fees and wait 3 months ...hey! sorry!! u put it in the wrong place!!
Well no. Because you ask Daryl the union guy and all the other whining foreigners-come-lawyers the person at the front desk may not give you this information. They are the champions in the system so you cannot be - according to the law - told not to file an application because you are a stupid and if you want something you need to do it like this. They may not say that. So you go there and think you are god. So instead of the clerk saying "piss off" they say yes, 200 euros and the official paper comes in 3 months saying "piss off" after which you employ the lawyer and complain and wait 8 months... see now the system and law and who benefits?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

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Pursuivant
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:20 pm

interleukin wrote:
The problem is "the manual" is not there,
So you would sit down and drive in a car you have never used before and without a drivers licence and assume that it will all be fine because there was no manual around telling you otherwise?
Ford Model T - I dare you that :twisted:
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

enk
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Re: SERIOUSLY I am in need for some HELP

Post by enk » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:31 pm

Upphew wrote:Does people just jump on a plane and decide that everything is going to be fine? Some planning and research maybe, please?
Based on the years I've been on this forum, I'd say probably 75% of people do just that. 15% of the remaining bunch
come to FF and ask us to do the research for them, then don't bother to read the answers and then
just jump on that plane/boat/whatever.

BTW, the most usual way of losing all of your documentation on a train is by flushing it down the
toilet. Unless someone else stole it. But then the people that flush it down the toilet usually
blame it on someone stealing it, so go figure.

-enk


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