moving to Finland ..living with Finn etc etc

[mikelowrey]

Hey guys just another quick question.....I was breezing through some of the posts here ...and I'm some what perplexed by the number of different answers
..I am Aussie but have an EU passport....over here like most of the guys ...just hanging out in the missus apartment spending all my savings..... I have been here 3 months ...and am staying for another 9 or so (Need to live here 12 months to get the GF a de facto visa for Aus). Because of this I have gone to mistraattii and tried to register us as a de facto ... we are living together etc ...Now the woman at mistraatti said we could register as a de facto couple as long as we had been living together for 4 months( She gave us a stamped and signed document that stated we had lived together for three ...all though I have no idea why she did this) ....She then sent me to the police station to fill out some paperwork..the paperwork is registering me as being a resident for family ties or some thing. Most of the people we have talked to seem to be positive about us achieving this de facto visa but after reading many posts on this forum it seems to be another story all together

My questions to you are as follows

1. I have read here that we must live together for 2 years before you are allowed to apply for the whole de facto residecny visa ....BUT I have been told different by the people at mistraatti...so what gives ?

2. If I am registered ..de facto visa etc ...Would I be eligible at KELA to see some government bread whilst looking for a job (I would feel some what entitled I have been pouring alot of money back in to the Finnish economy ????

3. Does the TE office really help with anything ?? jobs etc ?

4. And most importantly ....How long do the police generally take with all this rego BS ...I heard it can take months and months ?????

Kind regards

[tuulen]

Your statements went by so quickly that I am not so sure of what you have said.

For instance, are you now living in Finland with your Finnish wife?

If so, then why could you be asking about Finnish residency?

[Rip]

For EU citizenship based registration you should be able to show funds or income for living and a health insurance. normally for EU citizens the latter can be proven by just showing the EU health insurance card, but as you have not been living in EU that I guess would not be possible for you.

[rinso]

1. I have read here that we must live together for 2 years before you are allowed to apply for the whole de facto residecny visa ....BUT I have been told different by the people at mistraatti...so what gives ?

The two years is not a rule, it is more a guideline.
When you are living together for 2 years Migri can safely assume the marriage is not fake. But they might also believe you after 4 months because of your blue eyes.

[Rip]

1. I have read here that we must live together for 2 years before you are allowed to apply for the whole de facto residecny visa ....BUT I have been told different by the people at mistraatti...so what gives ?

The two years is not a rule, it is more a guideline.
When you are living together for 2 years Migri can safely assume the marriage is not fake. But they might also believe you after 4 months because of your blue eyes.

There is no marriage mentioned in the original post. I thought GF stands for girlfriend. As far as I have understood the rules, If he wanted to apply for a resident permit based on family ties, then they should be a proper family, and un-married couple that have been co-habiting for less than two years in general does not qualify. As a EU-citizen he would not necessarily need to get a residence permit, but for registration he would then have to show that he would not be a financial burden to the Finnish society (money and/or income and health insurance).

[tummansininen]

I was in a similar situation apart from the plan to move my fiancé back to Australia.

My guess is that 4 months would allow you to register the two of you as being "in a domestic partnership" in Finland, IF you were already registered as a legal resident, but 4 months will NOT get you the residency based on family ties in the first place. All that does is get you the same local Finnish rights as a married couple, but it's not related to residency requirements. The reason I think this might be the case is that it's very common knowledge that there is that 2 year guideline for counting your girlfriend as a family member. There's no "de facto visa" applicable to you, for Finland. You, as an EU citizen, don't need a visa to stay whatsoever. Here is a little bit of clarity for that and the EU law.

You are allowed to stay as long as you like and do whatever you please by EU law. However as a (British?) citizen, if you want monetary support you will be told to #$€@! off (back) to England and hold your hand out there. Finnish law however says that after 3 months you MUST register your right to reside in Finland on the population register, and this has nothing to do with your girlfriend. To register, you need to show means of support. Without a job, I guess you can't do this right now, so I suppose that is why you want to use your girlfriend as the family member on paper who is supporting you. Here is where you run into an issue, I don't think she is considered a family member under EU law. That's the two years thing... you don't satisfy it regardless of whatever the 4 months thing for the partnership is.

End result... if you can't show support, you can't register, so if you are not a family member of a Finn, you won't get any €€€ support. Having said that, they cannot make you leave Finland anyway. The only punishment for not following that particular Finnish law is that they won't give you a KELA number. We all know it's impossible to really function without it, but anyway.

(Incidentally... my husband was asked for his income while registering me and my two children. Yes, Husband. They didn't seem too concerned about it being exact or perfectly meeting regulations, and they just kinda waved the amount away vaguely as being fine, but I found that interesting since people on this forum have claimed a family member will not need to show adequate income!)

[mikelowrey]

Thanks for all the feedback......

The forms which I have in my hand, are the registration of 'right of residence' as well as 'additional information-family ties'.
When me and my girlfriend went to the police station they told her that she could support me (is this the case ??), hence putting her name down on the paper. The police also told us that I could list my parents as support as well. On top of that I do still have quite alot of savings left.
When filling out these forms my girl friend must prove that she had a steady income by showing wage slips etc.

I was wondering if I was not eligable for the whole 'family ties' form in the first place then why would they even bother issueing me one ? (We told them exactly what our situation was that we had been living together 3 months etc They seemed very positive).

What is the end result of all this ? If my application was deemed successful would I then be issued a social security number Or Kela number (not sure if they are the same) ??? Would Marriage make this process easier ?

[Nicely]

I believe (and again it's near impossible to get a specific rule) that if you can show savings in the region of about €1000 per month for 12 months (i.e. €12k), this will entitle you to the registration regardless of work or family circumstances. The amount may be less, but I can't get confirmation.

[tummansininen]

What is the end result of all this ? If my application was deemed successful would I then be issued a social security number Or Kela number (not sure if they are the same) ??? Would Marriage make this process easier ?

And yes, yes and yes. Married == RP in your case really, because they won't have any problem believing that your relationship is genuine. Nicely's comment above is interesting too and might be very useful to quite a few people (it isn't mentioned as one of the ways to prove income, and I guess they do that because of the potential for "risky" nationals to lie their way in via their relatives' incomes).

End result is I think you'll struggle to find anyone in this forum who believes the police etc have given you accurate/appropriate info that would actually be accepted for your application. On the other hand, they're the ones who are supposed to know and we in here can only go by opinion and experience, so how's that for a non-answer

Info from the police and migri sites:

Spouse or registered partner

A spouse may be granted a residence permit on the basis of family ties. A marriage certificate must be presented as proof of the marriage. The marriage must also be registered in Finland.

Persons of the same sex who have registered their partnership are considered spouses.

You hope to get around this by registering your partnership, but I'm not sure you actually can. ALL the sites I have seen on this refer to it being exclusively for same-sex partnerships, as do previous posts here on this forum - it was intended as an equality alternative for marriage you see. More info in English for de facto hetero couples seems impossible to find.

Also, from migri FAQs:

I am an EU citizen and have come to Finland to marry a Finn. I have resided in Finland for three months and would like to register. We have been co-habiting for more than three months now. How can we co-habit for the required two years if I cannot reside legally in Finland? I have no job.

You may not register as a family member yet. Instead, you may register on the basis of Union citizenship if you have sufficient means of livelihood, in other words, if you do not need to resort to income support and you have the necessary health insurance cover. Registration is also possible on the basis of financial activity (finding a job). If you leave Finland and return, the three-month right of residence period without registration will begin again.

It also notes that exceptions to these rules are only in extraordinary circumstances. Who knows, the bank savings might be enough to get you an exception.

[mikelowrey]

So if my application is put through ..and I do get my number would I then be entitled to support from KELA ? (I am not after money I wish to find a job but every little bit helps in the mean time).

[Nicely]

I believe the two year rule still applies if you are married... Even though Migri suggested to me to get married to solve the problem!

[tummansininen]

So if my application is put through ..and I do get my number would I then be entitled to support from KELA ? (I am not after money I wish to find a job but every little bit helps in the mean time).

Yes. I really don't think your app will be successful though. I hope I am wrong, but if everyone could just fill out a form to make their boy/girlfriend a family member after 3 months, the country would be inundated with (Nigerian etc) family members faster than people could blink. Migri is not that welcoming!

Nicely that shouldn't be the case, but I guess that might be why they asked my hubby about his income (although they didn't write it down or record it that I know of).

[mikelowrey]

Yea it's hard news but thank you very much once again for the feedback.....good to get some honest answers ....also just one more question...do you know what sort of time frame I would be looking at after handing these forms in ..to find out when they would be denied or deemed a success ???

[tummansininen]

Sorry, I don't know. In my case I was married before applying and they "issued" my number the next day but it arrived in the mail two weeks later.

And the whole reason we got married was for the same as you... everything is confusing, annoying, and a complete pain even if it is "possible"... or you get married, and then suddenly it is all (potentially) a lot easier. We will be having a "commitment ceremony" and a "reception" in Australia whenever we end up back there for a visit. Maybe that's an option for you guys so that you can have relatives attend in Australia, even if they aren't there for the legal part happening in Finland beforehand.

I edited my earlier post by the way, so you might wanna read it again. I can't say that registered partnership is definitely only for same-sex relationships, I just can't find any info that says hetero can do it in the first place, and very little info on what is required either way. The legal paperwork on the net only specifies that it is for same sex (but doesn't specifically exclude hetero).

[mikelowrey]

tummansininen your posts were very informative ...Big thanks once again!!!!

So after reading through your updates it seems as though marriage is the answer to our problems (sort of). I mean the way you are talking about all this paper work..makes me realise you know exactly how frustrating all this paper work is !!!

Are you saying that if we were to go and get 'married' some time next week...All we have to do is present my passport and the marriage cert to the police and two weeks later I get my social No. ?

That being said ..I was also wondering ..did you get married here in Finland ?? If so ...that is legaly recognised back in Australia yea ??