Anybody applied for Finnish citizenship in 2009 and got it?

[anas93]

Thats seems true if one reasons based on the present or as a result of the current crisis. But when I mentioned strategic I was meaning for the future of Finland. One serious fact is that the working population is shrinking in Finland. For the future of the country and its welfare tsystems the options are really too narrow : (i) increase retirement age to 70, (ii)sharply increase tax, which would encourage even Finns to seek work eleswhere, or (iii) bring skilled immigrants which is already a challenge given the climate, the language, the distance and the culture. So when I said strategically I meant that the efforts to integrate and motivate skilled immigrants to stay should have started already decades ago so that they would be up to the speed to fill the shrinkage in the working population. And yes skilled workers in all professions will be needed from the researcher, to the bus driver, to the social assistant to elderly, to the enterpreneurs.

[Rip]

This goes way off the original topic, but it does make all the energy saving exercises and costs merely exercises in masochisms if one then on the other hand wants to have continuously growing population. Finnish birth rate has been actually fairly high in European standards. What we do have are the "suuret ikäluokat" of 1945-50 - but now they have started to retire and the unemployment figures are not shrinking towards zero, and the global economy looks like they are not going to start doing that for a long time, if ever.

[fileexit]

2006: 7200
2007: 7900
2008: 10000
2009: 14300

by the way, the barely started 2009, so you can only compare 2007 and 2008. So yes, it looks like they are becoming lazy or at least not so keen on moving things along

[Upphew]

2006: 7200
2007: 7900
2008: 10000
2009: 14300

by the way, the barely started 2009, so you can only compare 2007 and 2008. So yes, it looks like they are becoming lazy or at least not so keen on moving things along

"Ajalla 1.1. – 30.6.2010 ratkaistiin 1 547 kansalaisuushakemusta, jotka koskivat
1 803 henkilöä. Ratkaisuja tehtiin 49 % enemmän kuin vuonna 2009 vastaavalla
ajanjaksolla (1 040 hakemusta vuonna 2009). Päätöksistä 93 % oli myönteisiä
(1 437 myönteistä päätöstä, 1 693 henkilöä) ja kielteisiä 7 % (107 kielteistä päätös-
tä, 107 henkilöä).Raukeamis- ja peruuttamispäätöksiä tehtiin 3 eli 0,2 % kaikista
päätöksistä. Ratkaistuista hakemuksista 15 kpl oli vuonna 2007 saapuneita hake-
muksia, vuonna 2008 saapuneita 728 kpl, vuonna 2009 saapuneita 656 kpl ja
vuonna 2010 saapuneita 135 kpl. Vuoden alussa vuonna 2007 saapuneita hake-
muksia oli vireillä 45 kpl, vuonna 2008 saapuneita 1288 kpl ja vuonna 2009 saapu-
neita 2910 kpl."

[Rip]

2006: 7200
2007: 7900
2008: 10000
2009: 14300

by the way, the barely started 2009, so you can only compare 2007 and 2008. So yes, it looks like they are becoming lazy or at least not so keen on moving things along

Eh? The numbers were consistently getting higher and the year 2009 ended nearly ten months ago. These were not the number of applications submitted in years 2006-2009, these were the number of decisions (counting individual persons included in the application) made during years 2006-2010.

[Pursuivant]

I don't know if its really worth whining any more - they have apparently heard and making appropriate measures http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2010102 ... 9_uu.shtml ...that'll dip the amount of applications to the volume they can handle, about ten a year

[anas93]

http://www.mol.fi/mol/en/99_pdf/en/90_p ... me2006.pdf












quote="Rip"]This goes way off the original topic, but it does make all the energy saving exercises and costs merely exercises in masochisms if one then on the other hand wants to have continuously growing population. Finnish birth rate has been actually fairly high in European standards. What we do have are the "suuret ikäluokat" of 1945-50 - but now they have started to retire and the unemployment figures are not shrinking towards zero, and the global economy looks like they are not going to start doing that for a long time, if ever.[/quote]

[Rip]

http://www.mol.fi/mol/en/99_pdf/en/90_publications/migration_programme2006.pdf

I don't really know what exactly is your point here, but if I ever gave impression that I have an overwhelming respect towards our current and recent ministers of labour, I do apologize. If I do not see a shortage of (not particularity talented) foreign work force here I'm not going to change my opinion because of some government document that forecast such a thing four years ago, a forecast that has not aged very well in the meantime.

[anas93]

The program in the report was actually adopted last December by the government of Finland as an immigration program and they have started investing the moeny for implimentation. irrespetive of how we perceive the government, the program should be seen as a good news for both immigrants and Finns. The aging of Finland is a reality that Finns should accept or the government may be should help them to understand. a few thousand increase of the population last year (mainly because of the cittizenships they gave to foreigners) or a slight increase of the birth rate (where the conrtribution of naturalized Finns is substantioal) does not mean that the problem is over. In many cties shcools were closed becuase of lack of children and the same will apply to universities.Even if we assume that there is another baby boom in Finland, in waiting for this generation to grow up and work, the current generation will find it hard to sustain the current welfare system. So we should not hid our head in sand or snow but simply accept the facts. But helas some media, or political parties mislead the average Finn and make him/her believe that immigration is a cost not an investment for the country...

[Pursuivant]

Immigration *is* a cost, a huge cost for this country, and what benefits for this "investment" of ours have we seen yet in 20 years?

a few thousand increase of the population last year (mainly because of the cittizenships they gave to foreigners)

Eh? The people living here are the population, citizenship doesn't have anything to do with it.

In many cties shcools were closed becuase of lack of children and the same will apply to universities.

That means savings, not costs.

the current generation will find it hard to sustain the current welfare system.

Yes, so we don't need more immigrants coming here sitting on their ass to be unemployed, we need more industry, more production, more jobs - if then there is a problem we don't have workers thats easily remedied, we have labour pools all around.

[Tiwaz]

The program in the report was actually adopted last December by the government of Finland as an immigration program and they have started investing the moeny for implimentation. irrespetive of how we perceive the government, the program should be seen as a good news for both immigrants and Finns. The aging of Finland is a reality that Finns should accept or the government may be should help them to understand. a few thousand increase of the population last year (mainly because of the cittizenships they gave to foreigners) or a slight increase of the birth rate (where the conrtribution of naturalized Finns is substantioal) does not mean that the problem is over. In many cties shcools were closed becuase of lack of children and the same will apply to universities.Even if we assume that there is another baby boom in Finland, in waiting for this generation to grow up and work, the current generation will find it hard to sustain the current welfare system. So we should not hid our head in sand or snow but simply accept the facts. But helas some media, or political parties mislead the average Finn and make him/her believe that immigration is a cost not an investment for the country...

Tell all that crap to Germany. They had serious "shortage" back then. Fixed by importing "Gastarbeiters".

Well, the quirk of needing more workers came and went, but imported workers remain. Now they are large social problem for Germany. Huge number of them do not integrate into surrounding society well, still clinging to way their parents or grandparents lived in completely different time and different nation.

Trying to import people to fix imaginary and/or temporary problem is idiotic because it creates permanent problem.

Immigrantion should not be stopped, but rather turned to more selective. We need people who adjust to what there already is instead of needing "special" care.
We need integrating people, who are prepeared to learn the language and culture and adjust to them. And who do this without need for constant handholding.
Not multiculturalists who think that Finns should change to adjust to immigrants.

By the way, it appears in Germany they have come to conclusion that multiculturalism is a big failure. Imagine that...

[EP]

the efforts to integrate and motivate skilled immigrants to stay should have started already decades ago

There were no immigrants to integrate and motivate decades ago.

[Pursuivant]

Jorma Ollila's (ex CEO of Nokia) council taxes of 10 years could buy 350 meters of metro... I think ours would hardly get an inch...

[Iris_Hel]

Jorma Ollila's (ex CEO of Nokia) council taxes of 10 years could buy 350 meters of metro... I think ours would hardly get an inch...

what is your point?

well, by my experience, Finland indeed need some special skilled persons to commit to live here. So far, Finland is a bit far away from immigrants-appeal country. Since you had picked up Nokia, well, at least this has been a major issue for some of exellent candidates to withdraw their application. even there is a big pay package waiting for them.

There is a key note from Jarmo Ollila that in coming 10 years, Finland need to attracts more skilled foreign workers to work here, in order to product competitive advantage for Finnish companies. You has mentioned that Finland need more industry, need more employer so to employ more people and contribute more taxes. Well, I think you are wise enough to understand that company need to be first survive, competitive, profitable so that they could further fullfil their "social responsiblity".

Finns are well educated, but they are not so extramely well educated to specific job. That to say, so far there is a gap between the large education ivestment to the actualy productivity that will fit into the Finnish role in context of global economy competition. There are people who are specialized in different area. Globalization brings mobility of human resource. Remember, human is "resource" in business context. Finland need to take a rid of the wave of globalization in stead of whining for all they lost in it. We heard enough whinings:
- immigrants do not work, they sack social welfare
- in case immigrants work, they took job opportunities from Finns.
- immigrants are illiteratured, they rotten out culture and drag the sociaty down
- universities has given admission to immigrants too easily
- there are too many immigrants application to Finland
- Finns are too little known in global environment
- immigrants students left coutry without working and paying taxes to Finland

I would say it is enough! time to wise up!
etc..

[Pursuivant]

Well what we seem to attract is people then whining here they cannot find jobs.