Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

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Nikolay
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Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm

Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:27 pm

Meta kuulo comrades

Forgive my Finnish it is a little rusty -- I was creating this particular topic of discussion regarding Finnish citizenship and the many obstacles I am currently facing in attaining it. My father is 100 percent Finnish, and accordingly so are my grandparents except both have passed on now. I live in Australia and was born in Australia so was my dad. I have been on the phone to the Finnish Embassy in Australia and they said I would have had no problems 2 years ago by submitting a declaration but 2 years ago I didn't really care as I was only 17 years old...now being 19 and almost 20 years I am so pissed off with myself for letting such a opportunity slip through my fingers...

However, the Finnish Embassy told me there is hope but it all depends on when my grandfather acquired Australian citizenship and if it was before my father was born I cannot get it, as the Embassy told me if it was after my father was born it would mean he is a Finnish citizen and so am I, which means I would get my Finn passport tommorow...I am still waiting for the papers to arrive and it may seem premature of me to expect the worst but if it is the case that he got citizenship even a week before my father was born does this mean all hope is lost and the only way I can get citizenship is if I know a Finnish sign language or do a doctoral dissertation in eugenics or some sort of crazy field of specialty?? Apparrently the Embassy noted that according to their records it shows my grandfather is still in the population/residency data in FInland as a citizen - but said because many Finns who moved to other Countries didn't notify the Finnish government I must have the exact dates of when my grandfather got Australian citizenship.

EDIT: For some reason Finnish Embassy doesn't care about when my grandma got Australian citizenship for some reason its all based on the fathers side - dno why. She was also a nurse in the war against the Soviets - as if that doesn't have any weighting ? :( lol

Any feedback to my obscure and unique dillemma would be much appreciated and I would forever be in your debt if you could stew up some thoughts on any paths I could go through to get it- The Finnish Embassy said there may be another amnesty period to come but how vague and uncertain is that? I love my Finnish heritage and would love nothing more to live or visit Finland in the future, I would be a bit cut and torn if I couldnt get it but life is life...you can't have your cake and eat it too. BUT I can tell you...this anticipation for good or for worse is driving me mental....

Kiitos
Last edited by Nikolay on Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

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Pursuivant
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:57 pm

So, you want to come here, join the army?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

desert nomad
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by desert nomad » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:40 pm

Nikolay wrote:this anticipation for good or for worse is driving me mental....

Kiitos
Why would it drive you mental?! Is it that critical?! It's not like your stateless or from a country with a low GDP. If you have Finnish heritage then you'll eventually regain Finnish citizenship, the only question is when.

Rip
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rip » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:28 am

Nikolay wrote: EDIT: For some reason Finnish Embassy doesn't care about when my grandma got Australian citizenship for some reason its all based on the fathers side - dno why. She was also a nurse in the war against the Soviets - as if that doesn't have any weighting ? :( lol
Older versions of the citizenship law (at the time of your father birth) were strongly against dual citizenships and patriarchal in mindset: Child born in wedlock would be entitled to one citizenship only, namely the father's.

If you're not entitled to citizenship, you'd still have an easy route to residence permit thanks to your heritage.

Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:23 am

Pursuivant wrote:So, you want to come here, join the army?
If joining the army is what it takes to acquire citizenship them I am all for it, however, the embassy said without citizenship I cannot do this.
desert nomad wrote: Why would it drive you mental?! Is it that critical?! It's not like your stateless or from a country with a low GDP. If you have Finnish heritage then you'll eventually regain Finnish citizenship, the only question is when.
Maybe 'mental' was too strong of a word, I didn't mean for it to be taken literally but - duel citizenship would be great to have, and awaiting the papers is how I say, inconvenient? Like I said earlier, it may be premature for me to expect the worst, but I usually do so I don't get surprised, but if I am eligible I will be thrilled twice as much as I don't expect it will happen and I'm just voicing alternative routes to you guys, who live in Finland and probably have some idea of it all.

Essentially the advice given here is
- Don't be impatient and wait - it may turn out I'm eligible through the papers.
- May be able to receive a residency permit and acquire for citizenship later on if I choose to move their (Finland).
- Or another amnesty period re surfaces itself like the one through 2003-2007 where I could claim citizenship due to my grandparents having to give up their Finnish citizenship in order to live in Australia - which denied my father and me Finnish citizenship at birth because of this.

The problem with the last one with the amnesty period is that another one may be in 50 years time or worse never again...so I'm not really relying on that to come back because it seems far too uncertain and as if the Finnish government want people to overpopulate Finland anyway... so I may have to live there for x amount of years, which I was planning to do anyway but rather as an outsider even though my surname is Finnish and my face is Nordic as <insert Nordic reference here> not to mention I lived with my grandma for awhile growing up who used to slap me around for speaking English, I always get nostalgic when I hear people speaking Finnish as it reminds of childhood and the better days when life was less complicated. It is sort of a shame I still can't use the legislation used throughout 2003 to 2007 as persuasive material, not necessarily binding. I heard it's all in the embassy's discretion when it comes to the issuing passports whether they deem to be comfortable in granting citizenship - obviously this discretion is limited but, I see me fitting some sort of criteria surely?

EDIT: I appreciate the speedy and informative responses to all of you who have contributed...but any other vital feedback or information you may be aware of would be welcomed with open arms.

Missa say on? - Where is the info!!
Last edited by Nikolay on Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rip
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rip » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:25 am

Nikolay wrote:I heard it's all in the embassy's discretion when it comes to the issuing passports whether they deem to be comfortable in granting citizenship - obviously this discretion is limited but, I see me fitting some sort of criteria surely?

Embassies do not even make decisions on residence permits any more (applications are sent to Helsinki) - I doubt they ever did regarding citizenships.

desert nomad
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by desert nomad » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:48 am

As Rip said, if you're convicted to connect to your Finnish roots, you can obtain a residence permit based on heritage, come and live here and learn the language and then apply for citizenship after fulfilling a minimum number of years of residence.

Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:20 pm

kathi wrote: If you think it would help you, you still have a lot to learn about Nordic mentality. It might be the way to get a job in Finland but for sure not a citizenship. What did you honestly think? You could as well have tried to give them money under the table as well. Sorry but i'm really getting annoyed when somebody thinks that they should get first priority just because they know somebody who knows somebody.
It seems that humour is almost non existent, in this so called "nordic mentality" as clearly you cannot take a joke. Where I live, basically nothing can be taken seriously and everything is a joke...I guess some of it has rubbed off on me seeing as I don't really have much Finnish family left except for my dad.
desert nomad wrote:As Rip said, if you're convicted to connect to your Finnish roots, you can obtain a residence permit based on heritage, come and live here and learn the language and then apply for citizenship after fulfilling a minimum number of years of residence.
Okay, fair enough - thanks for your help anyway, at least I have an answer if everything goes horribly wrong.

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Pursuivant
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:37 pm

Nikolay wrote:
Pursuivant wrote:So, you want to come here, join the army?
If joining the army is what it takes to acquire citizenship them I am all for it, however, the embassy said without citizenship I cannot do this.
Well, no, but the thing is theres people who are all in for "wanting to be Finnish" and then they read the small print afterwards and notice the packet includes some duties - such as military/civil service - anyways a year donated to the state. Which isn't bad if you think of it as a growing experience.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:27 am

IF I got my passport, I would do my civil service, but not before I graduate from my degree -- a year donated to the service is really nothing, and I'm sure it's an enviornment of encouragement and perserverance, not necessarily full metal jacket.

But realistically, what are the chances or probability that the declaration from 2003-2007 will ever come up again?

Is it

a) no chance at all
b) Maybe - if maybe how do I keep track on this?
c) Yes, I heard the Government speaking about another one maybe in (Year)

Further, I don't see why because both of my father's parents were former Finnish citizens it seems such a fight to regain citizenship - ...it's like I'm compared to someone from Saudi Arabia wanting to get citizenship for himself and 10 of his children... I have blue eyes and blonde hair and I'm as white as the snow in Siberia.

This is pending on the papers show my grandfather was an Australian citizen when my father was born, which is very likely according to my dad....but it seems like it will be just too hard, I read somewhere I must live in Finland for 10 years and an interruption only as much as a month can be granted to get citizenship... :cry:

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rinso
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by rinso » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:00 am

Nikolay wrote: Further, I don't see why because both of my father's parents were former Finnish citizens it seems such a fight to regain citizenship - ...it's like I'm compared to someone from Saudi Arabia wanting to get citizenship for himself and 10 of his children... I have blue eyes and blonde hair and I'm as white as the snow in Siberia.
Well mate, you're from Australia. And according to the Finnish way of thinking (and legislation) the world is divided in three groups; 1- Nordic countries, 2- EU, 3 - rest of the world. So you're no different than that Saudi bloke or anybody from a 3rd world country.
but it seems like it will be just too hard, I read somewhere I must live in Finland for 10 years and an interruption only as much as a month can be granted to get citizenship... :cry:
Officially it is not so long, but with the processing time for the application it could indeed become 10 years.

Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:36 am

rinso wrote: Well mate, you're from Australia. And according to the Finnish way of thinking (and legislation) the world is divided in three groups; 1- Nordic countries, 2- EU, 3 - rest of the world. So you're no different than that Saudi bloke or anybody from a 3rd world country.
Not according to the legislation 2 years ago, that's why I'm so confused it's like they open up the doors, but when they shut the doors, they lock them tight. I'm seriously kicking myself for not getting Finnish citizenship when I had the chance and I have no idea why the Finnish Government discontinued that law, it's not like Finland is Hawaii or the Bahamas...and just over 5000 people got citizenship, that's hardly anything when you compare the populus of Finland to be 5,313,399.

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rinso
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by rinso » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:49 am

it's like they open up the doors, but when they shut the doors,
Finnish citizenship is something precious. If you want to acquire it, you have to be serious about it. Unlike most countries there is a long waiting time and a serious language requirement. Not something you can get almost automatic.
Citizenship by declaration was an option for those limitations in old legislation (no double nationality). But if people didn't use it, they were not serious enough. No reason to keep the option open indefinitely.
(They intend also to close the option for the ethnic Fins in Russia.)

desert nomad
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by desert nomad » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:56 am

Nikolay wrote:
it's like I'm compared to someone from Saudi Arabia wanting to get citizenship for himself and 10 of his children... I have blue eyes and blonde hair and I'm as white as the snow in Siberia.
Edited after reading the OP is only 17 so it's understandable when such comments are made by a teenager who doesn't know better.
Last edited by desert nomad on Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rosilla
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rosilla » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:09 am

even if your father is considered a Finnish citizen, I do not think it will be as easy as you think it will be. Both of my parents and all of my grandparents are finnish and my parents never gave up there citizenship even though they moved out of Finland almost 40 years ago. I still had to prove I had ties to Finland and new the language and even that I had spent a certian amount of time(4mths I believe) between my 12th and 22nd birthday in Finland in order to retain my citizenship past age 22. I have not heard of anyone getting citizenship in Finland in the kind of situation you have discribed as easy as filling out a form and sending it in. Finland makes it very hard for anyone to get citizenship, I seriously dont think it will be as easy as you make it out to be if your father is considered a Finnish citizen.
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