Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

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Pursuivant
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:18 pm

rinso wrote:
it's like they open up the doors, but when they shut the doors,
Finnish citizenship is something precious. If you want to acquire it, you have to be serious about it. Unlike most countries there is a long waiting time and a serious language requirement. Not something you can get almost automatic.
They still do give a "returnee" option in applying for a residence permit.


"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

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AnnikaL
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by AnnikaL » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:03 pm

rinso wrote: Citizenship by declaration was an option for those limitations in old legislation (no double nationality). But if people didn't use it, they were not serious enough. No reason to keep the option open indefinitely.
Yes, I agree with this. My mother has never given up her Finnish Citizenship despite her years spent in the UK, it was too important to lose. However, it would have made no sense for her to choose Finnish Citizenship for me or my brother when we were being brought up in England. From an early age (9/10 probably) I have kept informed of how the laws have changed and as soon as I found out about the declaration option, nothing could have stopped me from taking it. It took time, form-filling, money, calls to the embassy, waiting, more waiting... over one whole year of waiting to get it and in reality I don't get one single benefit for myself, except to be able to call myself a dual citizen. But, of course, it wasn't about real benefit.

And I think it was very sensible to make the option a short-term one, the beaurocracy involved was better dealt with in one go not in dribs and drabs over years as people suddenly decided maybe it was something they wanted after all.
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Rosamunda
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rosamunda » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:15 pm

That sounds very complicated. My boys were born in France to me (a Brit) so all three were British. I was not married to their Finnish father so they were not given Finnish citizenship (1992-1996). But... as soon as we arrived in Finland (2001, by which time we had got married) my kids were given Finnish citizenship pretty much automatically. I remember getting a phone call from the maistratti telling me their citizenship had been granted (I was not even aware we had requested it!!!). The bureaucracy was minimal.
As for your mother.... if she was born in Finland I don't see how she could lose her Finnish nationality just by living in the UK. I left the UK over 30 years ago and have lived in several different countries since then, but I'm still British. I have never renewed my sons' passports (too expensive) but even without valid GB passports they are still British. Giving up citizenship is probably harder than acquiring it :wink:


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Pursuivant
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:20 pm

Well back in the day if you applied for a countrys citizenship either that country or your previous one usually demanded you give up the other.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


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AnnikaL
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by AnnikaL » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:49 pm

penelope wrote:As for your mother.... if she was born in Finland I don't see how she could lose her Finnish nationality just by living in the UK.
She couldn't lose it except through choice. When she married my father, she had the option of getting UK citizenship and a UK passport, but she chose not to because the laws on Dual Nationality in Finland at that time meant she would have had to give up Finnish citizenship. It isn't normally an issue except it is easy to forget little things, like one time we went with another Anglo-Finnish family on a day trip to Belgium, only to find that the two Finn's weren't allowed to leave the boat as they hadn't applied for a visa. Not wanting to go without our respective mothers/wives, we all stayed on the boat for the entire trip and got more than a little bored.

Things are different now. My mother could get the UK citizenship and remain Finnish ( :lol: as if she could ever really stop being that). Even without the UK passport, travel options are less restricted. She hasn't bothered, she doesn't really travel anyway, her Finnish status isn't really a drawback in this country.
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AnnikaL
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by AnnikaL » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:51 pm

Of course, this leads me to wonder if my daughter could in any way be a dual citizen. Perhaps I need to register her, but she was born two years ago so I might be a little late.... plus I wouldn't know how :oops:
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Rosilla
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rosilla » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:08 pm

AnnikaL wrote:Of course, this leads me to wonder if my daughter could in any way be a dual citizen. Perhaps I need to register her, but she was born two years ago so I might be a little late.... plus I wouldn't know how :oops:

I registered my boys with the Finnish consulate here(they forwarded it to the Maistaatti), they had to meet with both me and the father and we had a lengthy application process. On the other hand if I had been smart I just would have registered their baptism with the church and it could have been much easier that way.

edit: its not too late to register her I didnt even start the process until my boys were over 2 years old. But I wouldnt wait any longer if I were you. the sooner the better and apparantly the laws are changing so it wont be as easy next year.
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AnnikaL
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by AnnikaL » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:18 pm

Thanks, Rosilla, I'll take your advice on board. Maija is not baptised, I think I will have to do the Finnish consulate route.

On the other hand, would there be any option for registering her when I am in Finland (I'm going there in a week)?
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Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:24 pm

desert nomad wrote:Edited after reading the OP is only 17 so it's understandable when such comments are made by a teenager who doesn't know better.
If you read more carefully I stated that I was 17 years old at the time I could have submitted the declaration but I didn't care then because I was too busy finishing school trying to get good grades to get to university, which I am now studying science and law. BUT being a lawyer in Australia counts for nothing in Finland and I'm not going to pay $50,000.00 to my university for the 5 years I will be there, and then move to Finland only being able to be a bartender or something...
Pursuivant wrote: They still do give a "returnee" option in applying for a residence permit.
- So according to this, I can get a residence permit to live in Finland - what does a residence entitle me to? Can I vote? Can I work? Can I get a license to drive? Can I buy a house?

How long would I need to live in Finland on a residence permit to then be able to be a true Finnish citizen? I heard the only way someone gets citizenship is if they are Stephen Hawking, Bill Gates, or someone with an intellectual capacity like Newton, because your employer has to prove to the Finnish Government that they had to employ that individual on the basis nobody in the whole of Finland nor in the EU could do this job...which seems like an exercise in futility.

Kiitos Pursuivant, I appreciate the fact you looked this up for me anyway.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:09 pm

Nikolay wrote:- So according to this, I can get a residence permit to live in Finland - what does a residence entitle me to? Can I vote? Can I work? Can I get a license to drive? Can I buy a house?
The question is more of "may" than "can" as most of the "can's" are up to you or your assets. Voting is, after 2 years residence you can vote in the municipal elections for your council.

How long would I need to live in Finland on a residence permit to then be able to be a true Finnish citizen?
You figure that one out...
I heard the only way someone gets citizenship is if they are Stephen Hawking, Bill Gates, or someone with an intellectual capacity like Newton, because your employer has to prove to the Finnish Government that they had to employ that individual on the basis nobody in the whole of Finland nor in the EU could do this job...which seems like an exercise in futility.
Yes well becoming a citizen requires you to pass the language test... otherwise the residence permit being a excersize in futility... erm.. might be a push trying to convince they'd need a barkeep. Apropos which reminds me you could come "check things out" with that "travelling holiday" visa. Not that finding a job is anything easy.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


tuulen
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by tuulen » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Nikolay wrote:...But realistically, what are the chances or probability that the declaration from 2003-2007 will ever come up again?

Is it

a) no chance at all
b) Maybe - if maybe how do I keep track on this?
c) Yes, I heard the Government speaking about another one maybe in (Year)...
Try thinking of it this way. There was an open "window" of citizenship opportunity, but that window is now closed. There apparently has been some discussion about re-opening that window, but that has only been a matter of discussion, and at this time the window remains closed.


Rosilla
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Rosilla » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:58 am

AnnikaL wrote:Thanks, Rosilla, I'll take your advice on board. Maija is not baptised, I think I will have to do the Finnish consulate route.

On the other hand, would there be any option for registering her when I am in Finland (I'm going there in a week)?

YES much easier from Finland to register them. I went to the maistraatti and asked them if I would be able to register my younger one from within Finland easier then from Canada and they said if I had the long form birth certificate that showed both parents names on it then I could have done it in about 3 mins at the Maistraatti. So if you have the long form showing both parents names then it WILL be much easier from there then anywhere else...
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AnnikaL
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by AnnikaL » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:25 am

Thanks! I have the long version, so I'll definitely try and sort it out that way, even though it'll mean a bit of a trek to Kajaani and back one day.
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Nikolay
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by Nikolay » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:01 am

Pursuivant wrote:
Yes well becoming a citizen requires you to pass the language test... otherwise the residence permit being a excersize in futility... erm.. might be a push trying to convince they'd need a barkeep.
- In Australia I would be recognized as a lawyer after my degree, but I don't know if in Finland they will recognize this, therefore I make the barkeeper analogy as an ironic twist, because my studies would mean nothing to them, so I might as well be a barkeeper or someone who digs ditches.


Former Finnish citizens or citizens of
another Nordic country
If you are a former Finnish citizen or a citizen of another
Nordic country, the required period of residence in
Finland is the last two years without interruption.
- From the immigration website.
http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp ... anguage=EN

- Would this apply to me, or only if I have had nordic citizenship and this doesn't take into account my grandparents being born and raised in FInland? If it is the case, that I must be a resident for 6 years in Finland and they see me just as 'every other country' - then it may just be a holiday visit to Finland for a few weeks or however long I'm allowed before I get deported. I have too many strong ties in my country with family and friends, 6 years would be just too much of an ask to be away from here. I could do 2 years, but no more.


tuulen
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Re: Huuva paiva - Citizenship dilemma

Post by tuulen » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:54 am

Nikolay wrote:...In Australia...
Here is another approach which you might consider. For instance, if you are an Australian citizen then you might, and likely could, qualify for British citizenship. That would automatically make you a European Union citizen, too, and that means you could enter Finland as an EU citizen, Finland being an EU member nation. You would then have no rights to access any Finnish governmental benefits, but you could enter Finland and then stay in Finland indefinitely. At a minimum, that could give you an opportunity to research your potential Finnish citizenship status, while in Finland.


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