New alien act for EU-citizens

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xerxon
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New alien act for EU-citizens

Post by xerxon » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:20 pm

My Polish girlfriend was admitted for studies at Helia business polytechnics in Helsinki. I went to police in Malmi to ask what are the requirements for her to get the residence permit (she will be EU-citizen in the moment she will apply). I got some phone number where they provide such information. When I called the number I got some suprising information -
The guy said that because there will be a new law valid starting the 1st May, she will not need residence permit for studying and her only duty will be to register at the police station (without even showing that she has enough money to survive)! I couldn't believe the guy, so I specifically asked if it is a change from the current practise and he said that yes, it is because of the new law.
So is such information true or the guy just didn't have correct information (which happens all the time in immigration affair as I have noticed)?
Is there somewhere an explanation of the new law, or at least an English version of the law?



New alien act for EU-citizens

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:22 pm

Once it passes and gets signed by the madame president. I mean its only a few weeks to May... you think they wouldn't leave everything to the last minute now would you...
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


jaro
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Post by jaro » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:32 pm

I'm in the same situation as your giflfriend and I have very big difficulties to get the right informations. I'm going to apply for Polytechnic. I have to pass the entrance examination first, of course. I come from Slovakia (studied 2 years in Czech Republic). Slovakia is becoming a member of EU on 1.5.2004. I really don't know if I just apply for permit of residence after 1.5 and I get it because I'm member of EU. Or do I have to prove to have 5000 euro (informations vary....some say that you have to prove to have 5000 euro WHEN you ask for the permit and some say that you have to have 500/month what makes 5000/university year....some even say that you do not have to prove your financial situation).

I went through alot of sites looking for information but haven't found anything I could be sure enough. Even people on embassies don't know exact info about this matter. Basically, different sources say different things.

The last info I have found is this:

'EU/ETA-maista sekä Pohjoismaista tulevalla opiskelijalla on lupa tehdä työtä ilman aikarajoituksia pelkän oleskeluluvan perusteella. EU/ETA-maan opiskelijalta ei vaadita 5000 € pankkitalletusta kuten kolmansista maista tulevilta opiskelijoilta, vaan hän voi valitsemallaan tavalla esittää selvityksen siitä, että hän pystyy rahoittamaan oman ja perheenjäsentensä oleskelun maassa opiskeluaikanaan.'

I don't know if you speak finnish (I don't but girlfriend of mine is finnish and translated it for me) but it says basically that 'if you are member of EU/ETA you don't have to prove that you have 5000 euro but you have to say how you are going to finance your studies'.



http://www.syl.helsinki.fi/asiakirjat/julkaisut/Opas%20neuvojille/oleskelu.html Here is the link where the info is from. It's some Helsinki University site i guess.

The information that your girlfriend doesn't have to have residence permit sounds highly unlikely to me. Who exactly told you that?

Anyway, to sum it up, I really don't know...


jaro
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Post by jaro » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:44 pm

And here is something more:

Hallintovaliokunta hyväksyi ulkomaalaislakimietinnön
[02/04/2004 13:09]

Eduskunnan hallintovaliokunta hyväksyi perjantaina 2.4.2004 mietinnön hallituksen esityksestä uudeksi ulkomaalaislaiksi (HE 28/2003 vp, HE 151/2003 vp). Hyväksytyn mietinnön mukaisesti uudessa laissa säädetään entistä tarkemmin ulkomaalaisen oikeuksista ja velvollisuuksista.


Turvapaikkamenettelyt ehdotetaan säilytettäväksi sisällöltään pääosin samoina kuin voimassaolevassa laissa. Ulkomaalaislakiuudistus nopeuttaa ulkomaalaisasioiden käsittelyaikoja mm. lisäämällä sähköistä asiointia.

Valiokunta on työssään kiinnittänyt erityistä huomiota lapsen edun huomioonottamiseen häntä koskevassa päätöksenteossa ja menettelyissä ulkomaalaisasioissa.

Mietinnössä valiokunta suhtautuu myönteisesti ulkomaalaisten työlupamenettelyjen yksinkertaistamiseen. Ulkomaalaisten opiskelijoiden ja muiden ulkomaalaisten työnteko-oikeuden edelleen helpottaminen ja laajentaminen vaatii vielä lisäselvityksiä.




Mietintöön liittyy 2 lausumaa, jossa edellytetään mm. selvitystoimenpiteitä koskien lain toimivuutta käytännössä, lapsen etua sekä ulkomaisten opiskelijoiden työntekomahdollisuuksien helpottamista sekä kiirehditään tarvittavien täydentävien säännösten valmistelua.

Uusi laki on tarkoitus tulla voimaan 1.5.2004.


The info is from http://uutisruutu.eduskunta.fi/.


xerxon
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Post by xerxon » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:04 pm

Actually the case of my girlfriend is more complicated. If the only problem were to get 6000 euros (it is not 5000 anymore as I understood), it would be easy, as we can get together such money somehow.
Last year my girlfriend finished a degree in Poland. Then our plan was that she will apply for studies in Finland, she will be admitted, will get the student residence permit and everything will be ok.
She was admitted without problems to the school. But her visa application was refused, because she has already one degree from Poland and there is such a rule, that if you have already one degree and you want to study a new degree in Finland, which is not continuation of the old degree, you will not get the residence permit.
She anyway arrived here, because we were thinking that she will try to apply at the police station here what could give better result. But later, when we gained more information, we dismissed that idea, because it would be hopeless. So we decided that she can be an au-pair in Finland and when Poland will join EU, everything will be easier. She is au-pair now. But unfortunatelly nobody can give us any information, if she has chance to get the residence permit as EU citizen or the old rule will be still valid.
UVI said that she will not get the permit. Police said that she will get the permit if she will show 6000 on her account. And now the new information from the police is, that her only duty should be to register at police. So we don't know what to think. And if there will be more obstacles for her, we are just decided to move out of this country.

The new information I got by an official Malmi police station contact line. I got it on a business card at the immigration department at Malmi.
It says:
Helsingin Kihlakunnan Poliisilaito
Ulkomaalaispoliisi
(...the address...)
tel: (09) 189 3220


dusty_bin
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Post by dusty_bin » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:18 pm

Now that she is here, al she has to do, surely is to get her residence permit. Seems everybody is saying that is OK Who cares about differnt rules in the future...

I can see th epoint about the degree, she has a degree, presumably from a university in Poland, taking a degree at a Finnish Poly certainly LOOKS a little suss...

But, what is the problem, she just does the paperwork, if necessary AFTER May 1st.

You do seem a little erm, easily discouraged. These rules are in part intended to discourage, just get on and deal with it. Take the paperwork to the Police station along with your bank statement and do the thing.


jaro
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Post by jaro » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:26 pm

xerxon wrote: But her visa application was refused, because she has already one degree from Poland and there is such a rule, that if you have already one degree and you want to study a new degree in Finland, which is not continuation of the old degree, you will not get the residence permit.


don't want to sound stupid but can't she simply 'withhold' the information that she has a degree from Poland already? I mean, it's not written on any official document (like passport etc.). Could she get into some problems if it was revealed? Personally, I don't believe that there is such a complex control of personal info, or is it?


xerxon
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:20 pm

Post by xerxon » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:51 pm

Well not everybody says that everything is ok, police says that is should be OK, UVI says it is NOT OK, but generally nobody knows anything and nobody wants to give any answers.
The other problem is that the old refused applications stay in their computer system and could be source of trouble.
Of course she could just not tell them about her previous studies, but anyway they have it in computer already. Now the question is how independent is police and UVI in these matters. And she was not the only one with the same problem, there is actually plenty of people who were refused student residence permit for the same reason, so it is not as she did something wrong. And she wants to study the school, it is not just fake reason to get to Finland.
I don't think I am easily discouraged. After two refused applications, which we though will be successful, we don't think it is there just to discourage people.

Anyway, we will just try in May and let's see...


jaro
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:15 pm

Post by jaro » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:18 pm

yes, apparently, there is quite a mess in what it's going to be like after other countries join EU. and no one wants to take the responsibility for wrong steps. it sounds ubelievable but it's like that.

anyway, good luck!


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