Residency permits revisited: A-status and B-status

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laika
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Residency permits revisited: A-status and B-status

Post by laika » Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:46 am

I have yet another question about residency permits.

I'd like to know some general stuff about A-status and B-status.
Now, from this board and after contacting the Directorate of Immigration it's clear to me that if you're married to a Finn you get A-status; if you're applying because you want to come live with your girlfriend/boyfriend you get B-status, which can be changed in to A-status if for example marriage occurs (this what the DoI told me).

OK, so now I'm interested in the status you might get for studying or getting work here. If I've understood this correctly, studying here will get you B-status only, right?
How about work? I'm assuming it depends on whether the job is long-term or short term. So if you get a job for short-term, you get B-status? No exceptions? How long does the long-term have to be for A-status - more than 2 years?

With B-status you're not allowed for KELA's benefits in any case, right?

Then another question about A-status and permanent residency.. The articles I've found on the net suggest that with A-status you get permanent residency after living here continuously for 2 years. Well, someone claimed to me that this "continuously" means you're not allowed to travel basically anywhere outside Finland. Huh? Can this be true or is that pure BS? :shock:

I've tried searching for this info on the net and on this board but if it's out there somewhere I haven't found it. Then again… My hair turns blonder and blonder each day in the sun.. :roll:

cordially,
Laura



Residency permits revisited: A-status and B-status

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:45 pm

There is a variety of numbers for statuses as well.

All B's are "temporary".

B.4. is a "boy/girlfriend" permit.
B.3. is an "indentured labor" permit, may even be tied to a company.
B.2. is a "student" permit
B.1. is a "labor" permit that can after two years be changed to an A.2.

Switching from a B.2. rto a B.1. for example means going through the same hoops all over again. A B.3. renewed enough times may come back as a B.1. - but that is *may*.

All A's are "permanant"

A.5. is "married with children"
A.4. is "does not fit into any other category"
A.3. is a "granted asylum"
A.2. is "professional labor"
A.1. is a "law of return" Finn.

There is no category C, category D is "displaced persons" category, and F is the "off with you in 3 months" category, tourists, students coming to take entrance examinations etc.

It says here:
http://www.uvi.fi/pdf/olelupa_eng.pdf

"Once you have been granted a residence permit, you
may live, reside and travel in Finland while the permit
is valid. You may freely choose and change your place
of residence, or leave the country and enter it again."

The 2 years means you need to have "residence" i.e. permanent address I think... and not take 6 month vacations... Samer thing applies more or less in places with strict residence laws IIRC the USA has a 5 year rule if you get a green card and leave the USA you can forfeit it as you show "lack of intent" or something.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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neil
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Post by neil » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:11 pm

With B-status you're not allowed for KELA's benefits in any case, right?
I am sure H will correct me if I am wrong but yes, you are allowed KELA benefits if on a B-status permit but it is conditional. The conditions under which you can get KELA care are (amongst others I am sure) I know to be if:

a) You are an EU citizen and so there will be a mutual arrangement with your home county (form E111 I believe)

b) You are employed here and so are contributing to the Finnish healthcare machine (nationality is then irrelevant) but there is a minimum period where you contribute and after that you're in. If you are employed, your employer pays a huge whack of cash to them in addition to what you pay from your salary.

Also bear in mind: Healthcare here is not free. It is just subsidised. I broke some bones earlier this year and the total cost according to the hospital was something like €2000 and after all their bills (they send me like 10 or something ridiculous) I ended up paying little short of €400 out of my own pocket which is in addition to what they take from your salary. You will pay €22 every time you have to see a doctor. When I was in plaster, they made no less than 5 appointments for check-ups etc which themselves lasted not more than 5-10min. Then you pay some kind of an 'operation contribution' and on top of that you pay €44 a day for every day you are in hospital (I was in for 5 days). Go figure.

Moreover, if you are a day late in paying any of their bills, they send them to a company called 'Aktiv Capital' which then send you a fresh bill and they tack on €15 for the privilege.

I guess I am saying my experience with the healthcare system and KELA has not been a particularly positive one.

Finally. it took them 6 months from when I filled in the application to get my KELA card. I think it took Olly about the same amount of time too.

Thanks for listening!
Neil

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Post by PeterF » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:27 pm

neil wrote:
Finally. it took them 6 months from when I filled in the application to get my KELA card. I think it took Olly about the same amount of time too.

Thanks for listening!
Yes but you came from Bristol...the wild west bad lands of UK....and Olly from the Wild Moors near Manchester..who know what terrible desease you two might have bought with you :wink:
I came from Oxford ..Got my Kela a card in two weeks :P
I wonder how long it took Gavin or did he bring a "clear of foot and mouth certificate" from the Rhonda Valley Vet's surgery. :wink:


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:30 pm

I think KELA benefits depend on how long have you been a resident.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:08 pm

Peter Floyd wrote: I came from Oxford ..Got my Kela a card in two weeks
...back in 1982, when the appearance of a foreigner was noted in the society almanac...
Cheers, Hank W.
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Geri Bush
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Post by Geri Bush » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:19 pm

I have a A5 visa by proving I have been living with my boyfriend for 2 years. No intentions to marry and no children. I received full KELA benefits within a couple weeks of submission. But I am not recieving unemployment. I think it might be because the boyfriend has a job.

I found the 2 years living together clause somewhere on the web.


laika
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Post by laika » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:27 pm

Thank you all for answering, this is getting a lot clearer to me :D
Hank W. wrote:There is a variety of numbers for statuses as well.
Excellent! Thank you, kiitos kaunis! My next question would have been about these varieties within a status group. Very useful information which I have been unable to find. :)
Hank W. wrote: It says here:
http://www.uvi.fi/pdf/olelupa_eng.pdf

"Once you have been granted a residence permit, you
may live, reside and travel in Finland while the permit
is valid. You may freely choose and change your place
of residence, or leave the country and enter it again."
Ahhh, yes, that's true. I've even read that but my friend claiming that - was so certain of it and convincing :wink: so I got a bit shocked..

Anyway, now what interests me is the difference between these permits within a status group. I guess this is sort of a theoretical question. I do realize that when you apply, you apply for the permit you can.. :) However, let's say you could "choose" for example which B-status permit you apply for... Are there significant differences?
Now the numbers give me the impression they are in some sort of order. So B2 would be better than B4?

Or within the A-status group: Would A2 be somehow "better" than A5?

So are the right/benefits/responsibles different within a status group?

This might be too board a question but can this information be found somewhere online? Maybe I've completely missed some links..

cordially,
Laura
Last edited by laika on Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.


laika
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Post by laika » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:30 pm

Geri Bush wrote:I have a A5 visa by proving I have been living with my boyfriend for 2 years. No intentions to marry and no children.
If you don't mind me asking, the two years you lived together before getting A5; did you live guys live in Finland or somewhere else?
If you lived in Finland, did you have temporary permit or...?

cordially,
Laura


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Post by tjawatts » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:43 pm

The two year rule is about "avoliito" meaning open/common law marriage (I think they have something similar in Florida for example where if you have a relationship over so long they can sue you for some of your money!) so make sure you tick that box. You can get a visa if you can prove that you lived with your parnter for two years wherever that may have been. Obviously it is no good if you have not lived with your partner that long.

Tony


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:46 pm

Well, firstly as I said the "living in Finland", menas you can go on a weekend cruise, but not move your books to Stockholm. And you need to have a "permanent address" as well, where you "live". If you have only a B-status visa they may well not necessarily register you as "resident".

About the "betterness" of the permits, I wouldn't necessarily say so. They are "different" in categories. Though a B1 is definitely "better" than a B3.

If we want to be sarcastic, A5 = you are here because of someone elses credits, A2 = you are here on your own credits... Now next IEASF meeting I presume everyone is going to be flipping out their passports and comparing statuses... :mrgreen:
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


laika
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Post by laika » Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:09 pm

tjawatts wrote:The two year rule is about "avoliito" meaning open/common law marriage (I think they have something similar in Florida for example where if you have a relationship over so long they can sue you for some of your money!) so make sure you tick that box. You can get a visa if you can prove that you lived with your parnter for two years wherever that may have been. Obviously it is no good if you have not lived with your partner that long.
Yeah sure. This is what I initially asked from the DoI. And applying for a permit on the grounds that they have a g/f or b/f living in Finland would give you B-status permit (Hank said B4). In that case, they'd also "investigate" the relationship. Actually, this made me extremely curious.. has anyone here been through that "investigation"? I'd be dying to hear something about that.. (thinking of all the movies where fake couples are trying to quickly learn each others intimate habits.. :lol: )
And if you have children shorter time than 2 years would do (how long? They didn't say but I'm not interested :) )

I was just curious about Geri Bush's case.. where did they live together for the 2 years required.
Hank W. wrote: Well, firstly as I said the "living in Finland", menas you can go on a weekend cruise, but not move your books to Stockholm.
Understood.

I'm just interested in knowing all the different options and getting the "big picture" whether it would apply for our (me & Riko) case or not. The more I know about this all the better chance I have staying calm and not losing my mind :?
Red tape, lines, waiting and filling forms give me rash - especially when I'm not prepared. :evil: And I'm a Finn!

cordially,
Laura


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:19 pm

Well, it all depends if he is

a) EU/ Non-EU
b) is this a recent relationship or have you lived together abroad before (for that 2 years) The "investigation" means you have to prove you have.
c) does the B4 allow working? if not, they're expecting something to happen for the A5
d) if a non-EU he needs to find an employer who will employ him in 4-5 months the processing takes place, if the choice is B1 or B3...

And if you complain about the UVI, peter will summon the spectre of Eila Kännö... :D
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


laika
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Post by laika » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:05 pm

Hank W. wrote: The "investigation" means you have to prove you have.
Oh..yes.. I was told they'd "examine" or "investigate" (=result of my vivid imagination) how long we've known each other, communicating with each other, meeting each other, possible time living together..
but you see, I'm dying to hear details if someone has gone through this! :oops: :)
Hank W. wrote:
And if you complain about the UVI, peter will summon the spectre of Eila Kännö...

OHMIGOD! :shock: :shock: :shock:
I'm a good girl! No complaining! No, no, no...

crodially,
Laura


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nehia_qom
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Post by nehia_qom » Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:59 pm

To share my experience: I have a B3 status for me B3=no work, no study, no benfits.
When we applied for the residence permit we filled out a form talking about how long we have been dating, how we met, how long we were apart, how we stayed in contact during this time. I'm unsure if the actual investigation happened because we weren't living together for the 2 years.

I don't know if that helps, but that is all I know.

Does anyone know if you can switch status? I am now going to apply for a work permit and I am afraid they are going to tell me that I can't evne get one because of my B3 status.

Jessica

When choosing between two evils, always choose the one you haven't tried yet.
- Mae West

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