Computers...

[dusty_bin]

I confess, I had not thought of that aspect, but in truth it is a good reason for some individuals to buy an I-Pod. Especially depending upon what exactly the invoice says...

[sublimation]

If I have a residence permit, and I send my computer across the Atlantic to Finland so that it arrives there a few weeks after I do, will they charge me any money for it when I go to pick it up?

[Hank W.]

If they snag it - probably. +22% VAT on top.

[smeister]

Ok, about three weeks ago, I brought my SFF comp, laptop, and external HD from the US to Finland with no problem what so ever. I dont think its a big deal. I also had about 30ish burned DVDs and applications with me. I had all my computer stuff as carry on with me and the 30ish DVDs were in my luggage.

Don't fee so nervous about it. When they had the high security alerts I had to turn on my laptop evertime I passed the security check points. Now, they dont care anymore.

[ICanClimbThat]

It's not that I am that worried about the likelihood of getting caught. It's just the penalties for being caught are SO HIGH. I don't know what the laws are like in Finland but $100,000 to $250,000 in the US for every piece of pirated software, or what ever the obscenely high fines are for MP3's are what worry me.

[ajk]

Having copies of music CDs or DVD movies is not illegal in Finland, in fact, you are perfectly allowed to copy such stuff from libraries and to some extent (not too many copies, and not for money!) from (and naturally to) friends and family. This is in the law. It is only piracy when selling copies for money.

Software doesn't fall in the same category though, but I doubt anyone cares and for sure you will not get 100 000 dollar fines or anything extreme like that. Basically having warez stuff is not an offense, selling it is.

--

My first post, I'm not sure how I ended up here (Google makes it possible) but I thought I might aswell answer while I'm at it

I'm Finnish and a student at HUT.

[alloydog]

Having copies of music CDs or DVD movies is not illegal in Finland, in fact, you are perfectly allowed to copy such stuff from libraries and to some extent (not too many copies, and not for money!) from (and naturally to) friends and family. This is in the law. It is only piracy when selling copies for money.

Erm, I think you are wrong on that one.
You can copy a short extract from printed material in a library, for your own personal use, because when you use the photocopier, the library chrages you. Part of this fee goes towards a copy license.
However, music and computer software is not covered in this license.
So, checking out a CD, tape, video, whatever, from a library and copyin git at home is piracy. "But I would not have bought it otherwise." is no defence.
The software federation of Finland has said that it turns a blind eye to reasonable personal copying. for example, you buy a CD, and make a copy for your another member of your family to listen to in the car - technically that is still illegal, but it does not really damage sales.
The school kids who lets ten of their mates burn copies, even if no money has changed hands, has comitted a crime. It is no different to stealing straight from a shop.

[Mook]

Having copies of music CDs or DVD movies is not illegal in Finland, in fact, you are perfectly allowed to copy such stuff from libraries and to some extent (not too many copies, and not for money!) from (and naturally to) friends and family. This is in the law. It is only piracy when selling copies for money.

Erm, I think you are wrong on that one.
You can copy a short extract from printed material in a library, for your own personal use, because when you use the photocopier, the library chrages you. Part of this fee goes towards a copy license.
However, music and computer software is not covered in this license.
So, checking out a CD, tape, video, whatever, from a library and copyin git at home is piracy. "But I would not have bought it otherwise." is no defence.
The software federation of Finland has said that it turns a blind eye to reasonable personal copying. for example, you buy a CD, and make a copy for your another member of your family to listen to in the car - technically that is still illegal, but it does not really damage sales.
The school kids who lets ten of their mates burn copies, even if no money has changed hands, has comitted a crime. It is no different to stealing straight from a shop.

So what about this tax on blank media in Finland? (have you seen the cost of a blank DVD) Isn't it to allow "fair use" copies?

As far as I'm aware, copying media for personal use isn't a "crime" anywhere. At worst it's "copyright violation" which is covered under civil rather than criminal law i.e. the police aren't interested.

Making man copies and selling it "piracy" is a crime.

(or something like that)

[alloydog]

So what about this tax on blank media in Finland? (have you seen the cost of a blank DVD) Isn't it to allow "fair use" copies?

You are still required to pay for the original work.

I have seen 'fair use' and 'reasonable' described as backing up to protect the original media, allowing use to play on a different format, or to allow simultaneuos playing within the same household (I can't remember the source). All these situations do not really impact sales, as hardly anyone would buy two copies of a record, movie, whatever, just to watch in different places. If you have paid for the original work, then you can make copies for your own use.

What is breach of copyright is unauthorised distribution.
Giving a copy to a friend is distribution. Copying from a rented or borrowed CD/DVD/Video etc, is unauthorised distribution. If you have rented a DVD from R-Kioski, then you have paid to view it for a period of whatever the contract was, say 24hours. If you copy the DVD to watch later than that, then that is breach of copyright.

The police do not do anything about it because itwould overload the system.

[ajk]

Erm, I think you are wrong on that one. You can copy a short extract from printed material in a library, for your own personal use, because when you use the photocopier, the library chrages you. Part of this fee goes towards a copy license. However, music and computer software is not covered in this license.

No, I have checked this. Although computer software indeed doesn't fall under the same category, as I said in my last post. This link has the following (it's in Finnish, I'll translate the key parts):

Kirjalliset teokset # Ei rajoituksia, myös koko teoksen saa kopioida.

Books - no limits, you are allowed to copy a whole book.

Sävellysteokset # Ei rajoituksia, myös kokonaisen äänitteen tai nuottivihkon voi kopioida.

Music - no limits, you are allowed to copy a complete recording.

Elokuvateokset # Ei rajoituksia, myös kokonaisen videotallenteen saa kopioida.

Movies - no limits, you are allowed to copy a complete video recording.

Muut audiovisuaaliset teokset # Ei rajoituksia, myös koko teoksen saa kopioida.

Other audiovisual works - again, no limits.

CD-ROM -tallenteet eli romput # Tallenteella olevia teoksia saa kopioida kuten alkuperäisiäkin teoksia. Tallenteella olevia tietokoneohjelmia tai tietokantoja ei saa kopioida.

Elektroniset teokset # Toistaiseksi ei rajoituksia, jos kohteena ei ole tietokoneohjelma vaan tekstiä, kuvaa tai ääntä.

You are allowed to copy stuff that is on CD-ROMs or other electronic media, as long as the stuff isn't a computer program or database.

Tietokoneohjelmat ja elektroniset tietokannat # Ei saa kopioida ollenkaan (poikkeuksena ohjelmat, jotka eivät ole tekijänoikeuden suojaamia sekä varmuuskopiot).

Computer programs and databases - you can not copy at all.

Here's a couple more interesting links to the same site:

http://www.kaapeli.fi/~musakir/copyright/faq.htm#46 - You can download MP3s or similar audio files and use them, but spreading them is quite illegal.

http://www.kaapeli.fi/~musakir/copyright/laki.htm#612 - The actual law text about making copies for personal use.

http://www.kaapeli.fi/~musakir/copyright/termit.htm#755 - Definition of piracy. Buying or using pirated products is not illegal, selling them is. Also not to be confused with making copies for personal use.

The laws are much stricter in other than the Nordic countries, I understand you can only copy a certain amount of pages of a book in the UK and so on.


In any case, ICanClimbThat shouldn't worry about bringing his computer over, which is what this was about.

[alloydog]

Wow, I'm suprised and stand corrected !
Yes, in the UK, the copyright laws are very strict, especially compared to Finnish law - for a change !
Right, I'm off to the library ....

[ajk]

Yeah, I've had the same discussion before with some British friends. Apparently the Nordic view on things is "culture should be free and accessible", or something to that effect.

All this may of course change if the EU forces some widespan laws regarding copyrights, but at least for now things are rather relaxed.

[Alicia]

I pods in Oz are sus.

Basically all the owners are doing something illegal.

[Hank W.]

[Tietokoneohjelmat ja elektroniset tietokannat # Ei saa kopioida ollenkaan (poikkeuksena ohjelmat, jotka eivät ole tekijänoikeuden suojaamia sekä varmuuskopiot).

Computer programs and databases - you can not copy at all.

You missed the: "Except programs that are not covered by copyright and backups" ... so you can make a "backup" copy of anything.

[ajk]

@Hank W.

Yep, I know. I'm just not exactly sure what that means, since it contradicts this (also from the same link):

Julkaisussa oleva kirjallinen kopiointikielto tms. ei estä yksityiseen käyttöön tulevaa kopiointia, ellei kyseessä ole tietokoneohjelma tai elektronisessa muodossa oleva tietokanta, jonka kopioiminen ei ole sallittua edes yksityiseen käyttöön.

Perhaps it is badly worded and means "you can copy public domain software, and the library can make backups of everything it has" ..? In any case, I doubt the library is anyones primary source for "backups"