I need some advise please.

[ixthus]

Hi all!

Me and my wife are planning to go to Finlad next June, probably Helsinki or Tampere. I am a chartered Engineer in Electronics and she is a dental nurse, Im from spain and she is from brazil, we have been living and working in England for 6 years, but after visiting tampere a month ago, we both fall in love with the country and decided that Finland is the place we want to live and raise our family.

Im going aplly for a master degree I saw in Tampere University an another I saw in Helsinki and then once I have got an answer move to that city.

None of us speak a word of Finnish, I know that during my master degree I can do a Finnish module to learn the language, which I'll do for sure. We both want to work and pay our taxes like everyonelse in the country, so we are not planning to go to Finland and milk it till its dry, but I know its going to be a bit hard, not sure how many days my master degree are per day and if Im going to be able to work full time, probably not.

My questions are:
- Would it be possible for us to claim any benefits until we find a job considering that we are not finnish and that Im going to be studying?
- What city your guys recommend Tampere or Helsinki?

Thanks a lot for your help, hope you guys can help me, I have been reading the different post in the forum before writting this topic, but I couldn't find any information as all the cases I read one of the parts were finnish so not sure how its going to work for us.

[Upphew]

a) you won't learn Finnish in one module. See kielikoulu section in this forum for some help to learn Finnish.
b) you won't get any benefits by just popping in here.

Getting here is easyish for EU citizen, but you still have to have grounds to stay here. Study, work, family are safe bet. Last is out of question _for_you_ (but probably the only grounds which your wife will get RP). Read www.migri.fi. Also your wife should consult: http://www.valvira.fi/en/licensing/prof ... ice_rights

And ask questions, but don't expext someone else to do all the legwork for you. When you think you understand something, ask! thinking != knowing.

[interleukin]

Upphew is right, you need some "excuse" to get registered here. You could, if accepted to the studies, be allowed to register as a student here. That´s ok as an excuse, but it puts you completely outside of the social security system, you would have the same rights as a tourist. (If your studies would be somehow considered a job and you get a salary where you pay taxes, it might mean that you get access to the social security system, depends on how long you are studying etc).

You plan to work (even full time if possible) during your studies. Have you already found a job? If not, you really need to do that, the forum is filled with people who are surprised that they can´t find jobs in Finland.

Your wife has to use her family ties to you to get a residence permit (unless she has an EU passport). That means that you have to be something other than a studying tourist in Finland. If she can find a job herself already before moving, she can of course apply for a residence permit for a worker. Otherwise, it´s family ties to you that is her "excuse", and you have to be making enough to take care of you both. And if you are not properly registered here, she can not get registered.

So to summarise: One or both of you really need to have a full-time job BEFORE you can move here.

[Pursuivant]

Well, if you have been in the UK for 6 years, she could get an UK passport so you'd be both EU then. Now what comes to benefits, you can not get benefits unless you are a resident. To become a resident you need a "reason" which is work, study or family. If you are studying, you are not "available for work" so no benefits there, and if you come to Finland for the sole purpose of study, then you won't get a student handout either as students are regarded as "temporary" and not covered by the social security as you need a job for atleast 2 years to get under coverage. So its a bit of a catch-22 situation there. Language is the biggest challenge in finding employment. So really, I'd say you will be very skint to begin with. Students do get cheap housing and such, but then as you have seen from the news Nokia and Nokia networks have been laying off people theres a bit of a "supply" of engineers.

[Rip]

Strictly speaking grounds for staying here is not required (for EU citizens + family), but unless the reason for coming is not your employment, you need to show you have enough assets that you do not need to resort to social benefits. Unless you're employed you'd be outside the local social security / health insurance system.

I guess you mean either Tampere University of Technology or the former Helsinki University of Technology, currently part of the Aalto University. Both I believe are quite well respected. Helsinki as bigger city perhaps offers some possibilities not available in Tampere; housing should be cheaper in Tampere.

[ixthus]

Thanks a lot for all your answers, really appreciate. I would like to make clear that I was not expecting anyone to do all the legal work for me as it was suggested by Upphew, I had read a lot about the issue but I was not sure that’s why I asked for advice here.

Again thanks a lot for your answers.

I know that no knowing the language it was gonna be an issue in order to find a job, although I was told that on my field most companies do not require the language as long as you can speak English, that’s why we were planning to enrol to a Finnish course once in Finland, and live from the money we have been saving, until one of us get a job, and if on top of that I can study a master degree that would help a lot in order to get a job and know the culture more. But nevertheless, we wanted to know that if the worst come and we run out of money and none of us got a job, we could still apply for benefits. Again never was in our minds to go there and rip the country off. Like I said we both live in UK, didn't speak a word of English when I came and NEVER had to apply for benefits.....but I knew that if I needed it I could, and that helps a lot when you are moving to a foreign country, you don’t speak the language and don’t have any contacts there.

After your suggestions I probably gonna study the option of apply for a job first and if I’m lucky enough to get one (especially after the news about Nokia) then I will start applying for my master degree and planning our moving
Thanks for your advice guys

[Upphew]

Leg, not legal.

Remember that benefits are abused and officials act accordingly and by the rules. Getting the benefits will be almost impossible for you. Secure the job if possible, if not possible... lurk more here and decide if you really wang to come.

[rinso]

although I was told that on my field most companies do not require the language as long as you can speak English,

There are jobs that could be done without Finnish skills. But when they have to choose between someone speaking only English or someone speaking Finnish and English (and often some Swedish too), guess who gets the job.

[ixthus]

Leg, not legal.

Sorry Upphew, my bad!

But when they have to choose between someone speaking only English or someone speaking Finnish and English (and often some Swedish too), guess who gets the job.

Thats true......well seems its gonna be harder than I though then!! lol. w

Guys one more question, in general, How are Finnish people about foreigners? please dont get offended by the question, I have met two Finnish people on my life and they were awesome people, and we didnt have a problem when we went to Tampere, but after reading a few post in this forum I started to be concern about it as my wife is Brazilian black, so you can tell miles away she is not Finnish , Is this a known issue? or what I read it was just a few ignorants trying to make themselves look bad and its better just to ignorer them.

[Lamauttaja]

Guys one more question, in general, How are Finnish people about foreigners? please dont get offended by the question, I have met two Finnish people on my life and they were awesome people, and we didnt have a problem when we went to Tampere, but after reading a few post in this forum I started to be concern about it as my wife is Brazilian black, so you can tell miles away she is not Finnish , Is this a known issue? or what I read it was just a few ignorants trying to make themselves look bad and its better just to ignorer them.

Of course there are some racist in every city, and everyone has their own stories. But i think finnish people is not really a racists, Maybe in smaller cities/towns they could stare Foreigner longer. Maybe someones can be little "unsocial" etc.

But these are not reasons to not come to finland, you're welcome

[Pursuivant]

How are Finnish people about foreigners?

Foreigners on benefits? They love you.

[Kutittaa]

Ok first of all.

Your chances of getting benefits are really low, or well zero I should say so I don't give you any false hope.
Normally the absolute minimum requirement to moving here is that you at least have a job first, or that you speak Finnish.

Without either it is an upward battle against shít creek.
That is to say that it is not impossible but it is probably not worth it.

You can come and register that you wish to stay here because you are EU. However as others have said you will need to prove that you have the funds to live and support yourself. You need to understand that unless you have a job that your money will be going down all the time, no matter what and you won't be making any. Guess what other kind of people face this situation.... Yes, Tourists. Unless you have a tree that grows money...

Also take into account that it is very hard to get an apartment in Helsinki, as there is lots of competition. There are also many people who come here and make many big costly mistakes, only to follow them up with even more stupid mistakes instead of just going home. Countries don't care as long as they aren't paying the bill. Finland will let you in like any place, take your money and offer you not much in return if you don't have a job or can't speak the language.

Anyone who only speaks English is going to probably be hired as a temporary worker rather than full time until they find someone more qualified who can speak English Swedish and Finnish. Which is usually what the 'starting level' is. Eng, Fin, Swe. The more the better.

So coming here means that you will need to have a lot of money up front to put into accomodation. Rent, first month + bond/deposit. Then there is transport, food, heating, water, electricity etc. Just like all places.. I hope you have a good amount of money set away for your sudden decision to move here... or else you're dreaming and reality will wake you up sharply.

You don't speak any Finnish and if you had been reading around the forums here you would know that it can take several years (6-8) to learn proper Finnish. Maybe one could do it in a shorter time but not whislt you work (which you will be doing or you will be starving).

Take note that if you move here now, it is winter and not really the best time to be job hunting. If you come here in summer you will face 2-3 times the competition of people looking for summer holiday work and other stuff. As well as a huge decline in availability of apartments. We have a saying and it goes like this "Finland is closed for summer". So good luck getting a job then without any languages other than English, primarily Finnish.

Your wife has no real right to stay here. She is not EU, she is not Finnish and she speaks no Finnish. Because you aren't Finnish she can't be a family member. She could apply to study or something, I don't know. Pretty much what anyone tells anyone around here is "If you aren't EU you get 3 months to marry someone who is Finnish or you'll be out on your ass like everyone else".

Consider if it really is worth the time, money and massive stress that it will be moving here. Also, I don't even think Tampere is even that nice of a place really... But hey choice is yours, first and foremost you need a job, and don't think that you can work and 'actually' learn Finnish in just 1 module...

Oh and lastly, Finns hate foreigners, and they hate those on benefits even more. Even foreigners hate foreigners here. I could not feel more at home here because of that, but 70% of other people take it the other way and don't like that. Lets just say the golden saying "Finns will probably put up with you, but they won't like you" But is a common known thing that if there is any 'blacks' / arabs here they are probably asylum seekers or married some lonely Finnish guy/girl, which is basically the same thing... so yeah. Whilst we may not be as racist as Iceland.. where they don't even let black people in the country. It is still kinda bad... like I said, read the last quote I just put in italic. It's a hard topic to nail though. We just finished having a discussion about that sort of thing and everyone had a go at each other because we all had different opinions.

PERKELE! It's so fúcking hard to explain anything to do with racism without using offending words.

After your suggestions I probably gonna study the option of apply for a job first and if I’m lucky enough to get one (especially after the news about Nokia) then I will start applying for my master degree and planning our moving
Thanks for your advice guys

You said 'I' what about your wife? Will she sit back in England and drink tea?

[Upphew]

Your chances of getting benefits are really low, or well zero I should say so I don't give you any false hope.
Normally the absolute minimum requirement to moving here is that you at least have a job first, or that you speak Finnish.

Speaking Finnish is not mandatory, unless you want citizenship. And to move here you need reason, reasons being: work, study and family (and refugee, but good luck convincing that you fled EU country..). Any of those reasons won't give you any benefits straight away (like Pursuivant explained), unless you are family member of Finnish citizen.

Lastly, your wife has no real right to stay here. She is not EU, she is not Finnish and she speaks no Finnish. Because you aren't Finnish she can't be a family member. She could apply to study or something, I don't know. Pretty much what anyone tells anyone around here is "If you aren't EU you get 3 months to marry someone who is Finnish or you'll be out on your ass like everyone else".

Of course she is a family member. See: http://www.migri.fi/netcomm/content.asp ... anguage=EN

[Kutittaa]

I see, she's in the same-ish boat because he's EU. But that doesn't give her a free meal ticket. It would be better for her to get UK citizenship. Or would Finland see that as a 'shortcut' (unsure of the right phrase) to getting into Finland?

What rights does she have then if she's married to an EU national?

[Rip]

I see, she's in the same-ish boat because he's EU. But that doesn't give her a free meal ticket. It would be better for her to get UK citizenship. Or would Finland see that as a 'shortcut' (unsure of the right phrase) to getting into Finland?

What rights does she have then if she's married to an EU national?

Right to come here on the same terms as her husband. As long as they are married and live together I don't her citizenship makes much difference (apart from voting rights in EU elections). Only case where it related to immigration perhaps would be relevant is if she had a job and he did not. If employed (or otherwise able to support himself) he can clearly come here, and even bring a wife. The same perhaps does not apply if the employment statuses are reversed.

If they can't support themselves, they can't officially move here even if they were both EU citizens.