Exemption from conscription

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Cappuccino
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:26 pm

Exemption from conscription

Post by Cappuccino » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:42 pm

I am 28 years old and received Finnish citizenship last month. So, I now have dual citizenship and liable for Finnish conscription.

I read from Defence forces website (http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/portal/pu ... tionality/) that I may apply for exemption based on my dual nationality and family liabilities (includes wife and 1 year ole son).

My question is if I'm granted exemption from military service based on dual-nationality/family-reasons, does it automatically make me liable for civil/non-military service?

Honestly, if I didn't have family/financial responsibility I would have willingly taken part in military service. But I can't think for the civil service as an alternative. So I need to make my arguments clear during the regional office's call-up interview. I'm optimistic that I might get exemptions from military service, but afraid that such exemption would lead civil service, which is event worse and lasts longer.

I would be glad to receive your insights. Thanks in advance.



Exemption from conscription

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Jukka Aho
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Jukka Aho » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Cappuccino wrote:My question is if I'm granted exemption from military service based on dual-nationality/family-reasons, does it automatically make me liable for civil/non-military service?
The non-military service is an alternative to conscription, but since conscription is considered the default case, you need to specifically apply for non-military service “for reasons based on personal conviction”. As far as I know, there’s no way to make someone who has not specifically applied for it legally obliged to do the non-military service. If you’re exempt from the military service, you’re also exempt from its alternatives.
znark


Rip
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:25 pm

Cappuccino wrote:I am 28 years old and received Finnish citizenship last month. So, I now have dual citizenship and liable for Finnish conscription.

I read from Defence forces website (http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/portal/pu ... tionality/) that I may apply for exemption based on my dual nationality and family liabilities (includes wife and 1 year ole son).
I don't see the "family" part you refer to..? (I don't think it exists)
My question is if I'm granted exemption from military service based on dual-nationality/family-reasons, does it automatically make me liable for civil/non-military service?
If you are granted an exception of the obligation to serve, it applies to all kinds forms of service. Requesting to do a civil service instead of a military one is another matter completely.


Cappuccino
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Cappuccino » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:55 pm

@rip. Yes you're right. I misread it for Conscription Act's -> Section 84 – Exemption from extra service. However, I belive this section is irrelevent to my case.

Thanks a lot man! I get the point.


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Kutittaa
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Kutittaa » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:35 pm

Why is everyone so scared of doing a little bit of time in the army...
I̶f I can find any way to insult someone, believe me I will.


CH
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by CH » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:52 pm

Somebody explained here previously... if I don't remember totally wrong... that if you live abroad you can ask for an exemption. Ahh, yes... your linked page says:
if 1) you have Finnish citizenship and one or more other citizenships, 2) your permanent address is not in Finland, and 3) you do not have any real ties to Finland.
and note the "and" there... I read that as all of those has to apply. You can't move suddenly aborad and claim that you no longer live in Finland.

Having a family will not give you an exemption. There was one dad who was a single parent to two small kids (if I remember correctly) and asked due to this hardship for an exemption. The answer? "We can arrange for foster care." So no, no exemption.


CH
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by CH » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:57 pm

Kutittaa wrote:Why is everyone so scared of doing a little bit of time in the army...
Doing it at an age when you have no commitments is a totally different thing than doing it when you have a family that you may be the sole provider for (so your wife/husband would essentially be a single parent), a house (mortage, electicity, water, heating, upkeep), a job, ...


Rip
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:20 pm

CH wrote:Doing it at an age when you have no commitments is a totally different thing than doing it when you have a family that you may be the sole provider for (so your wife/husband would essentially be a single parent)
Part of the reason why most of the natives do it when they are about 20.
a house (mortage, electicity, water, heating, upkeep), a job, ...
Kela does support with those. Of course it is not what normally would be considered fair compensation of the time used, but that makes conscription cheap (for the state budget).


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cybertiger
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by cybertiger » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:06 pm

If you'd waited 2 years to get citizenship you wouldn't have this problem :) OK, not helpful.
-CT
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Pursuivant
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:10 pm

Indeed, if you'd waited for a year, you'd been "too old". Now its a bit difficult to get any good excuse, but maybe the doctor can write you into C-class... "self-troubling homosexuality" is a bit hard to pull off if you got a wife and kids, but theres a range of other ailments or psychological conditions that make you unfit for service. Not that I'd suggest avoiding your obligations with such underhand means.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


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rinso
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by rinso » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:53 am

but theres a range of other ailments or psychological conditions that make you unfit for service.
In the eye of an employer they also make you unfit for work. :twisted:


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Pursuivant
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:08 pm

Well, you can get a miraculous cure before the job interview, is'nt Jimmy Bakker coming around on a tour? 8)

Besides which, unlike in the "good old days" and if you're not in your early 20's, nobody gives a damn any more these days. Well, officially at least. The only thing they want to know if you are between 19 and 30 is that you've "squared out your obligation" and won't be retrieved by a MP squad car as a dodger. Thats about it. I'm not sure even if they're allowed to ask "where served" rather than "service done" without denoting civil/military
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


tech_guy
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by tech_guy » Fri May 20, 2016 3:54 pm

Cappuccino wrote:I am 28 years old and received Finnish citizenship last month. So, I now have dual citizenship and liable for Finnish conscription.

I read from Defence forces website (http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/portal/pu ... tionality/) that I may apply for exemption based on my dual nationality and family liabilities (includes wife and 1 year ole son).

My question is if I'm granted exemption from military service based on dual-nationality/family-reasons, does it automatically make me liable for civil/non-military service?

Honestly, if I didn't have family/financial responsibility I would have willingly taken part in military service. But I can't think for the civil service as an alternative. So I need to make my arguments clear during the regional office's call-up interview. I'm optimistic that I might get exemptions from military service, but afraid that such exemption would lead civil service, which is event worse and lasts longer.

I would be glad to receive your insights. Thanks in advance.
Would you like to share your case. Did you do the conscript or u got the exemption? Thanks


niceguy40
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 4:00 am

Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by niceguy40 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:00 am

are you kidding???? do it for the adventure of it!!!!


leisl
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Re: Exemption from conscription

Post by leisl » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:20 am

Pursuivant wrote:Besides which, unlike in the "good old days" and if you're not in your early 20's, nobody gives a damn any more these days.
This is exactly what my circle of friends say as well. It used to be that you weren't a real man if you hadn't done military. Now only the old farts care about these things. Civvy is considered a viable alternative. It's only if both are missing that someone would give a guy the side-eye, like, are you lazy or something, etc. With all the graduation parties I have been to over the past few years, I think about 15 of them since I'm "of that age" where everyone's kid is matriculating or graduating from something... it is always the topic for the boys and it's clearly becoming a more popular choice than it used to be.

If you're not a strong Finnish speaker and you live in Finland there is a big advantage to considering the civilian service option. Others have pointed out that young people can go into military service even from Finnish level 0 and come out babbling 100 miles an hour, but it's harder to do at your age and having a matured brain :lol: Plus, for civilian service you live at home and get to be with your wife and children every afternoon. Combined with having something to put on your CV that is actual local work experience.


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