Brit wanting to move to Finland, advice please :)

[californiakontio]

Don't listen to the kangaroo. That kid spends more time on here than he does with his wife, which may be why she kicked him out not too long ago and sent him packing.
I'm sure it wasn't due to his charming personality and maturity.

Short story, many of the posters are correct, you do have an uphill battle. Do what I did and move her to your country instead. Simple math dictated that it made the most sense and guess what, my wife thought so as well.

- She speaks the language
- She is familiar with the culture
- Much larger labor market
- Easier for her to assimilate
- Lower cost of living

Yes one day she will likely want to move back, but by then you guys will have progressed a lot more as a couple (stronger bond), you could arrive with your residency permit in hand, some fluency in Finnish/Swedish and a lot more familiarity with the culture.

[Upphew]

Short story, many of the posters are correct, you do have an uphill battle. Do what I did and move her to your country instead. Simple math dictated that it made the most sense and guess what, my wife thought so as well.

- She speaks the language
- She is familiar with the culture
- Much larger labor market
- Easier for her to assimilate
- Lower cost of living

Yes one day she will likely want to move back, but by then you guys will have progressed a lot more as a couple (stronger bond), you could arrive with your residency permit in hand, some fluency in Finnish/Swedish and a lot more familiarity with the culture.

I'd say that is spot on except you are somewhat more familiar with Finnish culture and she can't understand why Finland isn't as it is supposed to be. And unless you make the Finnish your house language, I giggle to your "fluency".

[llewellyn]

Well, after all the cold showers - evidently the purpose of the FF is to persuade foreigners not to emigrate here - some, if qualified, encouragement. If you don't expect a bed of roses but at times a very frustrating upphill struggle in strange and tiring circumstances, you might find the experience quite worthwhile indeed. Sometimes I think that the bitter and regretful ex-pats are somewhat over represented here, it might just be that most successful and well integrated ones don't have the time... It certainly will be refreshing, something very different, and will open your eyes as regards England as well. As repeated here over and over again it might not be the most sensible and calculated decision, but it actually has been known that often even the most sensible and calculated decisions have led to lifes of regret and bitterness. Life in any place will not be easy, and avoiding regret and bitterness ex post facto might be mostly an internal, not external process... My advice to any person would be, see new places, meet new people, have worthwhile moments and experiences - and don't expect things to be easy.

[Upphew]

Well, after all the cold showers - evidently the purpose of the FF is to persuade foreigners not to emigrate here

...with rose tinted glasses. Which everyone wears when they are in love. Sure, everything seems so dull and gloomy without them, but that is the reality. And the reality isn't so dull and gloomy, it just seems so after you have removed the glasses.

[llewellyn]

Well, after all the cold showers - evidently the purpose of the FF is to persuade foreigners not to emigrate here

...with rose tinted glasses. Which everyone wears when they are in love. Sure, everything seems so dull and gloomy without them, but that is the reality. And the reality isn't so dull and gloomy, it just seems so after you have removed the glasses.

Well, I think you can overdo the wordly cynicism and pessimism. Sure, it is easy to confuse emigration with the failed relationship, but relationships can fail also in the beloved home country. Sure, it can be dismal then abroad, a sense of being stranded, but I just can't help thinking that it is mostly for the good to experience strange and challenging circumstances, if only just for making you to appreciate your native country more. But I have seen in many ex-pats, Finns and foreigners, a certain healthy individualism, a sense that they are at home where-ever their friends and families are, they are relying less on tired tribal collective feelings and familiarities. It's no bed of roses, but I somehow suspect that it's not a bed of roses anywhere in the world.

[Biskit]

Before I moved to Finland, I was living in Spain. I sent a similar request for information on a forum for ex pats living in the area I planned to move to. I received a similar barrage of negativity, sarcasm (nothing wrong with sarcasm when used in the right context), and hostility. I was told I was wasting my time, there was no work, it wasn't the bed of roses I thought it was (and other incorrect assumptions) etc, etc... I moved there anyway. I lived there for four brilliant years and was never without work, I even started my own company. I only left when I received a better offer in Finland. I've still got loads of friends there and get back whenever possible. I keep an eye on the forum and the same idiots are still at it today. They haven't got anything better to do I suppose.

There is some truth in what people are saying, it will be difficult. The language is pretty messy, I speak three languages and in my opinion this is the hardest to learn so far, and you'll need good contacts if you're going to get a job.

You know yourself better than anyone, and you'll learn a lot more about yourself by moving to Oulu. If you think you are up to the challenge, go for it! You only live once... What have you got to lose? It'll be an experience if nothing else. It could be worse, you could be stuck in front of your computer day after day spouting bitter comments at anyone who comes in your path. Now that would be sad, wouldn't it.

[Kutittaa]

Short story, many of the posters are correct, you do have an uphill battle. Do what I did and move her to your country instead. Simple math dictated that it made the most sense and guess what, my wife thought so as well.

There was only 2 of us.

Don't hold your breath buddy, you're next

[Sial]

well do your search and talk to normal people who have same experience like you. Dont listen to people like Kutittaa, cuz he just know how to insult and put laughing smiley. other than that, he is crap pit and fully mentally ill and stressed person. He himself will be on his way back soon, cuz sooner or later, he will receive divorce from his finnish wife. They are on their way to end up their stupid relation.

[Kutittaa]

well do your search and talk to normal people who have same experience like you. Dont listen to people like Kutittaa, cuz he just know how to insult and put laughing smiley. other than that, he is crap pit and fully mentally ill and stressed person. He himself will be on his way back soon, cuz sooner or later, he will receive divorce from his finnish wife. They are on their way to end up their stupid relation.

Wow good advice Sial...

[Sunil-123]

1- Regarding success of your relationship, only time will tell. It's a fact that intercultural relationships fail more often, but not always.

2- Regarding finances and working life, if you are willing to do anything, including cleaning, you'll find a job. Don't expect a good job but you would not be an unemployed person if you are willing to do everything and your wife's family is also helpful.

3- More than 80% chances are that, if you come here, you will have very limited social life and you'll become depressed after a couple of years because of weather and social reasons and it will more likely have an effect on your relationship as well.

4- 10-20% chances are that you'll be able to handle issues and will lead an OK/good life.

[Sial]

Wow good advice Sial...

Like i said, this guy only know to put laughing smiley when he dont have anything else to say. Well, soon see you on a flight off from finland. Kangaroo will go back where he belongs

[Ross1983]

Something that people dont talk about in Oulu is that the religious folk have a monopoly on most of the construction jobs making less jobs for young guys here which has a knock on effect.

Your best bet is to get a city & guilds level 1 in painting & decorating, a drivers license & I will give you a job, only after you take me for a pint first offcourse

[gfunho]

Since kuttitta is not exactly the most reliable source of information, I will comment on some of his remarks.

1. You will not learn Finnish from visiting here and trying to learn. You will be too busy drinking, partying and enjoying the country. Even if you do spend the entire time here studying you will not learn shít. To learn, you must live here, permanently. So get that out of your head. Oh and your 'girlfriend' will not teach you anything. Don't pressure the poor girl.

1.- It is actually difficult to learn finnish and I think you don't have a chance of speaking it properly before you move here, so in this one he is almost right.

2. You have no chance in hell in getting a job 'as an I.T. junior' with or without Finnish/Qualifications. You have more competition than just about anyone else and you don't know a shred of Finnish = No one wants you. If you want to live here pick another career.

2.- Actually, IT business is the only place where you have a quite decent chance of getting a job without finnish skills. Even if finnish speaking workers are desirable, IT companies many times can perfectly manage in english, at least in Oulu. I do not speak (or did not speak) finnish and it was not a problem to be offered some jobs in the IT market.

..
3. There are no jobs here for I.T. in Oulu. Pick another career AND another area.
..

3. Actually, in Oulu there are more than 400 technological companies and THERE ARE quite many IT jobs. However, recent Nokia situation where about 500 skilled people is looking for a position in Oulu makes it a little more complicated right now.

4. It is impossible to find entry level jobs without Finnish.
..

4. IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE to get entry jobs without finnish if you are in IT. I can count more than 10 people in Oulu that I know that got an IT job without finnish skills. Most of them still don't speak finnish. I also have to say that a good number of them left the country because they did not like to live here or are planning on leaving.

7. Your career background is non-existent. Finns don't care about your 'past entry-level job history'. Get a masters degree and then someone will look at you. But without 2 of them, they probably won't talk to you.

7. Actually experience counts as much as qualifications in IT. If you can do something and are willing to be tested, you have a chance even if you don't have a Master's degree, but I will say that the titles make things easier. Specially Masters degree and niche skills (it is not the same to know basic Java programming than to know how to design computer vision algorithms, for example.


Summarizing, I would say that if you can code properly and you can show it there are chances of finding a job in IT in Oulu, although it will not be easy, mostly due to the current circunstances.
My suggestion is that you try to contact the University. It is a pretty international environment, and sometimes they are in need of some coders, or they offer some traineeships. There are also some companies that have spun-off from the University that sometimes need people.

[gfunho]

So why are you moving here then? By the way, Persuivant lives in England.

By the way, kutittaaaa, I love how you spell Persuivant ( even if it was not on purpose, the name was spot-on )

[canadianchick]

Despite all the negative responses you got to this post, I want to throw in a positive one.

If I had listened to these pessimistic people, I would not be a Canadian citizen who currently lives in a wonderful apartment in downtown Helsinki, who has a great job (English speaking) as a teacher with qualifications that do not meet the expected Finnish standards, yet somehow I still landed this great job and beat out 3 other people for it (go figure!). I have taken Finnish classes and am getting better very slowly, emphasis on very slowly, but I can get through daily life without needing to speak perfect fluent Finnish. My wife is loving and supportive and helps me to learn when I ask. I have IT skills myself and have seen many postings for jobs in this field that do not require only Finnish (including one in Oulu that I was actually offered).

The reality is, you CAN make it here without Finnish, being native, or being educated. It's hard and you've got to have a bit of luck on your side. You also have to be self motivated to go out and find the jobs and learn the language at whatever rate you can manage. But don't let these pessimistic assholes who hate foreigners get you down on the idea just because they feel like being jerks. Can't help but wonder if they're so pessimistic because they didn't make it themselves...

If you love your girlfriend and it is the right move for you both in your relationship, then give it a try! If you are planning to visit, look at some job postings, make some calls, see what you can find. The jobs are out there if you are willing to look for them!

Best of luck!