Pros And Cons of Moving

How to? Read other's experiences. Find useful advice on shipping, immigration, residence permits, visas and more.
DualCitizen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:14 pm

Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by DualCitizen » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:44 pm

I'm a dual citizen from the US. I look like a Finn, am quiet and reserved like a Finn. I don't speak the language, but am familiar with hearing it being spoken. I am somewhat familiar with the culture... I'm thinking about moving there.

My grandfather died 3 years ago, and left a huge estate to my mother which we are finally in the process of inheriting. My mother feels obligated to move, while I'm on the fence about it.

I'm 23 years old. I don't have much going on for myself here, despite having a few good friends... and a !"#¤% of memories..

I've thought about pursuing my education in Finland, and maybe starting a whole new life there, or if not that, get my education in Finland and move back to the states....

But, I don't know if I want to leave the comfort of all that I know in the US.

I have a HUGE family there, yet I don't know or speak too any of them, other than my half brother, on Facebook, who is in his 40's.

My mother hasn't been in contact with her family for years, following her father's death, because of depression etc...

I don't know what to do, when the time comes to stay or leave.



Pros And Cons of Moving

Sponsor:

Finland Forum Ad-O-Matic
 

Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:09 pm

DualCitizen wrote:I'm 23 years old.

I've thought about pursuing my education in Finland, and maybe starting a whole new life there, or if not that, get my education in Finland and move back to the states....

But, I don't know if I want to leave the comfort of all that I know in the US.

I don't know what to do, when the time comes to stay or leave.
You are an adult, responsible for your own life - at your age, other people have already finished their education and have a wife and kids...

Here in this forum there are so many people who have no US citizenship and no EU citizenship and/or no money - in some aspects you seem to be an incredible lucky person.

Don't ask other people what you want to do - you have to make up your mind what you want to make out of your life yourself.

If you have specific questions ask them here, but don't expect other people to take care of your life.


AldenG
Posts: 3334
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by AldenG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:24 am

Do you have any skills or education? Interests?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


tuulen
Posts: 1658
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:18 am
Location: New England, USA

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by tuulen » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:10 am

As a dual-national you could reside either in the US or in Finland. But if you have any financial income from the US, such as from the inheritance you mentioned, and if you are a resident of Finland, then you could be subject to Finnish taxes on your US income, in addition to the taxes you could owe to the US.


User avatar
rinso
Posts: 3719
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by rinso » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:56 am

It is difficult to advice you what to do, like Adrian said.
But on the other hand I understand your problem to evaluate the possibilities.
If you can adept to the Finnish culture and you learn Finnish (not easy at all) you can have a good life with the estate behind you.
But it depends completely if you can manage.

Don't count on your family. If the contact is minimal already they won't be there to welcome you when you step out of the plane.
You might build up a relation with some of them, but they will remain people you'll only see om family reunions.
And the estate might bring in some other tension too. (It's a family estate, but this foreigner gets it).


User avatar
Karhunkoski
Posts: 7028
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm
Location: Keski-Suomi

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by Karhunkoski » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:58 am

Moving will cause your whole world to change, everything you know and are familar with will be left behind. It takes some strength of character to make it in Finland. The language, culture and customs are so very different to other countries in Europe. You can get by with English but to be truly happy and settled here, you need Finnish skills. This is more true outside of Helisnki. Learning Finnish takes native English speakers somewhere between 4 and 10 years. The weather and climate can be a challenge for those not used to it.

You should ask yourself if you have the strength of character to succeed in the face of such major challenges. You shouldn't need to resort to an internet forum for guidance on your own wants and wishes.
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


User avatar
Cory
Posts: 3643
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Turku

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by Cory » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:00 am

Karhunkoski wrote:It takes some strength of character to make it in Finland.
23 and in his/her words, "I don't have much going on in my life" Doesn't sound very motivated to do much with their life other than waiting to see what comes along. Those of us who've moved abroad understand how motivated we need to be to make a life in another country. Nothing comes handed to us. Looking for an easy way out with the estate will dry up eventually.
Image


AldenG
Posts: 3334
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by AldenG » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:15 pm

On the other hand, sometimes people who haven't been particularly challenged just need a particular challenge in order to awaken direction and motivation.

James Michener once wrote that little experience before the age of 40 can be wasted on a man, provided there is experience of some kind.

One way or another, the Finnish estate is going to be part of your identity in life. It can be the thing you never really got to know, the opportunity you missed, etc., or it can become a turning point of some kind. That's not to say you necessarily have the strength or wits to "succeed" in Finland, but a move like this is certainly a challenge to the apparent drift you've experienced to date -- a drift which is much more typical of Americans your age than of Finns your age or, say, Canadians your age.

Your choice at the moment appears to be "more of the same" or something that will upset that apple cart. What will come of it, what you will make of it, nobody can say at this point. That would be true even if you were gung ho for the move. But it guarantees stimulation and new experience. If you leave after 4 years saying "never again," you will nonetheless have learned and grown as a result of the experience. And at least you'll probably know how to say "never again" in Finnish.

There are some things that are probably healthier in the US but there is probably more that is healthy about life in Finland. I think you owe it yourself to at least give yourself a chance to root in Finland and see if you thrive.

Now two other things: Are you sure you still have Finnish citizenship? Did you take the necessary steps around age 22?

Finnish citizens and dual nationality

And are you prepared to do your military service?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


llewellyn
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:13 pm
Location: Espoo
Contact:

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by llewellyn » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:09 am

Karhunkoski wrote: The language, culture and customs are so very different to other countries in Europe.
M'kay... Language I get, but have you ever been to Sweden or Norway, or even Estonia? I would not say so very different, but so very identical... I was recently to Sweden and was really hard pressed to see any major difference apart from the strange Swedish habit of adding sugar to bread.


AldenG
Posts: 3334
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by AldenG » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:56 am

llewellyn wrote:
Karhunkoski wrote: The language, culture and customs are so very different to other countries in Europe.
M'kay... Language I get, but have you ever been to Sweden or Norway, or even Estonia? I would not say so very different, but so very identical... I was recently to Sweden and was really hard pressed to see any major difference apart from the strange Swedish habit of adding sugar to bread.
It's a real paradox that Sweden and Finland can be so full of similarity and so full of difference at the same time. I've usually thought of Sweden as the vivacious blonde sister and Finland as the moody dark-haired sister. Even on the most superficial visual level there's much more eastern influence in Finland and it also says something that campground cottages in Sweden tend to be painted inside and out, with floral or white lace curtains, while they're almost completely rustic in Finland. That's not even getting into the really major differences in an area like high culture. Art is not yet synonymous with politics in Finland.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


Upphew
Posts: 10071
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by Upphew » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:04 am

AldenG wrote:
llewellyn wrote:
Karhunkoski wrote: The language, culture and customs are so very different to other countries in Europe.
M'kay... Language I get, but have you ever been to Sweden or Norway, or even Estonia? I would not say so very different, but so very identical... I was recently to Sweden and was really hard pressed to see any major difference apart from the strange Swedish habit of adding sugar to bread.
It's a real paradox that Sweden and Finland can be so full of similarity and so full of difference at the same time. I've usually thought of Sweden as the vivacious blonde sister and Finland as the moody dark-haired sister. Even on the most superficial visual level there's much more eastern influence in Finland and it also says something that campground cottages in Sweden tend to be painted inside and out, with floral or white lace curtains, while they're almost completely rustic in Finland. That's not even getting into the really major differences in an area like high culture. Art is not yet synonymous with politics in Finland.
http://satwcomic.com/deer-hunt
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


ruusu25
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by ruusu25 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:29 pm

It sounds like you're looking for a change (maybe temporary, maybe longer), so it couldn't hurt for you to make a short-term commitment to living in Finland that won't bind you for years on end if you wind up not liking it. Why not try a two-year international master's degree programme? There are plenty of those throughout the country, especially in the Helsinki area (where is your estate, actually)? If you have retained your Finnish citizenship, you'd be free to either stay or go after that, depending on what you feel is right at that time. Lots of people around your age who have no ties at all to Finland come for a college program. Many of them then leave Finland and never look back, but others choose to stay for awhile.

There are a few challenges that most foreigners I know faced when they first arrived, especially getting used to quiet, reserved nature of most Finns and learning the language. But neither of those things is insurmountable by any means. The silence takes a few months of acclimation. The language, on the other hand, can really be whatever you make of it. Finnish is not an Indo-European language (like English, Spanish, German, Russian, etc.), which means it functions much differently from English and is most challenging in the beginning, when you first sit down to learn it. However, because Finnish is also extremely systematic and (arguably) more logical than even English, it becomes significantly easier as you progress.

If you do attend only a non-intensive university language course, it will probably take you about two years to be reasonably conversational, and several more to be fully fluent. However, if you are genuinely interested in the language and have enough self-discipline to make yourself study for a meaningful amount of time every day, even when you have full-time commitments like work and/or study, you can and will learn much faster. I know a few people who have been in Finland for only 6 to 8 months who religiously study grammar and vocabulary on their own for maybe an hour each day and seek out ways to practice their speech at least once a week. All of them are already very independent and capable when it comes to conversation. They are certainly nowhere close to actual fluency, i.e. they would not be able to work and study only in Finnish, but they can comfortably hold reasonably complex conversations and carry out all of their daily business at the store, bank, post office, etc. in Finnish. If you have that kind of dedication, you will speak Finnish much quicker than if you only study when your class assignments force you to. Also, if you've grown up hearing Finnish, maybe that will make conceptualizing the grammar and learning vocabulary easier for you than for those who come in with no knowledge of Finnish whatsoever.

Anyway, you have a lot to think about, but I wish you luck in whatever you decide. Making the decision to move to another country is never easy, but at least in this case you have options that would not bind you here long-term if you find that this isn't for you. On the other hand, if you wind up liking Finland, it would have been awfully unfortunate to miss the opportunity to discover that.


User avatar
Karhunkoski
Posts: 7028
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm
Location: Keski-Suomi

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by Karhunkoski » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:09 pm

llewellyn wrote:
Karhunkoski wrote: The language, culture and customs are so very different to other countries in Europe.
M'kay... Language I get, but have you ever been to Sweden or Norway, or even Estonia? I would not say so very different, but so very identical... I was recently to Sweden and was really hard pressed to see any major difference apart from the strange Swedish habit of adding sugar to bread.
Yes. I visit Sweden about five times a year. I can see where you're coming from regarding the similarities, but I also notice some huge differences, many of which are pointed out by Swedes. I won't get drawn in to spelling them out but Alden's excellent sister analogy hints at some.
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


llewellyn
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:13 pm
Location: Espoo
Contact:

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by llewellyn » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:04 pm

AldenG wrote:
llewellyn wrote:
Karhunkoski wrote: It's a real paradox that Sweden and Finland can be so full of similarity and so full of difference at the same time. I've usually thought of Sweden as the vivacious blonde sister and Finland as the moody dark-haired sister. Even on the most superficial visual level there's much more eastern influence in Finland and it also says something that campground cottages in Sweden tend to be painted inside and out, with floral or white lace curtains, while they're almost completely rustic in Finland. That's not even getting into the really major differences in an area like high culture. Art is not yet synonymous with politics in Finland.
Well, if we go for the deep historical structures we have got religion, the patterns of land ownership, law, local government and much of civil service and central government in common with Sweden (unlike for example much more feudal and central european Denmark). Sweden north of Stockholm is very much like Finland, very familiar territory. Obviously there are differences and we have more eastern and slavic influences (and are thus by far more interesting and less predictable than the orderly and obsessively well behaved Swedes with their neurotic cleanliness...) but in general we are just like any other protestant northern European advanced society, only with a weird language and relatively eastern position. There is nothing strongly exotic in our society in general Western European cultural perspective, just some flashes and strains of Russian influence (all for the good in my opinion).


DualCitizen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:14 pm

Re: Pros And Cons of Moving

Post by DualCitizen » Tue May 07, 2013 12:29 am

Adrian42 wrote:
DualCitizen wrote:I'm 23 years old.

I've thought about pursuing my education in Finland, and maybe starting a whole new life there, or if not that, get my education in Finland and move back to the states....

But, I don't know if I want to leave the comfort of all that I know in the US.

I don't know what to do, when the time comes to stay or leave.
You are an adult, responsible for your own life - at your age, other people have already finished their education and have a wife and kids...

Here in this forum there are so many people who have no US citizenship and no EU citizenship and/or no money - in some aspects you seem to be an incredible lucky person.

Don't ask other people what you want to do - you have to make up your mind what you want to make out of your life yourself.

If you have specific questions ask them here, but don't expect other people to take care of your life.

I'm not expecting anybody to take care of my life. I take care of my own priorities, thank you.

I'm just seeking some possible insight regarding my situation for those who care to reply. Nothing specific, just broad feedback.



But on another note, I also don't ever plan on getting married, or god forbid, have kids.

So if I pursue my education (university) at my age, I wonder, will that make me an outcast of sorts?

I want to get a good job, and contribute to society, pay taxes etc..


Post Reply