Residence card?

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chilly2908
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Residence card?

Post by chilly2908 » Fri May 31, 2013 7:51 pm

Hello everybody,
I've read most of the threads in the forum related to Residence permit applications. But I still have a few doubts.
My situation is the next:

I am an non-EU national, my husband is EU national (czech). We got married last November (2012), and I got a 5 years residence permit here in czech republic.
Now I got accepted into Oulu UAS (studies start on August 28th). I already asked to migri information email about what should I do, either apply for a student residence permit or a residence permit based on family ties.
They answered me the next:
A residence card is issued to family members of EU citizens. You can apply for it at the local police station in Finland at the same time as your husband registers his residence.
University sent me enrollment form. In this one clearly states the next:
Non-EU/EEA citizens have to possess a valid residence permit when entering the school.
The problem is that I don't know how long would it take for me to have the residence permit? or residence card?
in Migri page says that you can't get a residence card without a residence permit. So I don't understand exactly what I should apply for at police station in Finland.

Also, I wanted to check about the health insurance. I didn't see anything related to it on the application for residence permit based on family ties.
So I'm wondering if it isn't necessary for this application? I sent a mail to Migri again, but got no response about this.
Because I was wondering if I could get the student health insurance that would complemented because of my length of studies in Finland (4 years bachelor degree).

I am quite confused at this point about what do we need to do.

If you have some useful information, I would be very thankful. :)



Residence card?

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Rip
Posts: 5583
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Rip » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:04 am

chilly2908 wrote: in Migri page says that you can't get a residence card without a residence permit.
You must have confused something here..?


chilly2908
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by chilly2908 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:53 am

Sorry, I must have confused "Residence card" with "Residence permit card", maybe?

Because now I see that it is "residence permit card" the one that appears here: http://www.migri.fi/services/_applicati ... tion_forms

So there are two kinds of cards?

Now, checking the list of fees in Migri page (http://www.migri.fi/services/processing_fees)
I see the next one:
Residence card submitted to the Finnish Immigration Service by the police 114 euros
Is it that one? :)

Does someone else knows on which grounds is this one given (without applying for residence permit)?

Thanks again!


Rip
Posts: 5583
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Rip » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:29 am

chilly2908 wrote: So there are two kinds of cards?
Yes, the residence permit card is what they give now (instead of the earlier sticker attached to the passport) as a proof of a residence permit.

Does someone else knows on which grounds is this one given (without applying for residence permit)?
"Residence card" (without the word "permit"): you're a family member of a EU citizen who is moving to Finland.
Your husband should be employed or otherwise able to show to be able to support you two.


chilly2908
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by chilly2908 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:35 am

@Rip.

My situation is the second one. We'll have the money to support ourselves and my husband will probably have a work there.

So do you know where to get exact information about the papers needed for the residence card? Will it be also enough to show my student health insurance or will I have to get some more expensive one?

Thanks a lot for replying. I saw your posts on the other threads and I was actually hoping you would answer me. O:-)


chilly2908
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by chilly2908 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:03 am

@FloydFin:

in the wikipedia page says:
So the card only confirms the right of residence, it does not create it. Even without applying for a Residence Card, a qualifying family member has the right of residence, although it may be difficult to prove
Do you know if having already a residence permit (for 5 years) from another EU country proves this right?

Thanks for the links. :)


chilly2908
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by chilly2908 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:48 am

Thank you both! (Rip and FloydFin) I am feeling more hopeful and with less doubts now! O:-)

I'll update what happened when I get to Finland and start the process. :)


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:27 am

FloydFin wrote:
chilly2908 wrote: Do you know if having already a residence permit (for 5 years) from another EU country proves this right?
I believe yes this has already established that fact. (I edited my previous post because of that especially that migri advised you to apply for the card directly).
No, it cannot establish the fact that her husband has work in Finland.

To apply for a Residence Card as a spouse of an EU citizen, what is needed are the certificate of the registration of the Right of Residence of the EU spouse in Finland and proof of the marriage.

An EU citizen has the Right of Residence only when he has work in Finland, or valid health insurance and a place at university, or valid health insurance and sufficient means of support for the duration of his residence in Finland.

If her husband finds work in Finland or has much money on his bank account, he can move to Finland, register his Right of Residence and his wife can get a Residence Card.

Otherwise he has no Right of Residence in Finland he could register, and his wife cannot get a Residence Card.

Except for some areas in IT, it will be very hard for her husband to find any job at all in Finland unless he already speaks Finnish fluently (and in the current economic situation, even then it would be difficult).
Last edited by Adrian42 on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


shahan_nazim
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 9:27 am

Re: Residence card?

Post by shahan_nazim » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:33 am

why not ask the embassy directly to cast off any further doubts? they do respond quickly.
Btw beware that the residence permit for family ties takes longer then student RP. University deadlines are an important consideration and you must have your RP in august, so in my view you may go for a student RP.


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:34 pm

shahan_nazim wrote:Btw beware that the residence permit for family ties takes longer then student RP.
As wife of an EU citizen moving to Finland she would not need any Residence Permit at all.

In that case, she just has to go to the Finnish police for getting a 5 year Residence Card.


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:34 pm

FloydFin wrote:
Adrian42 wrote: No, it cannot establish the fact that her husband has work in Finland.
It establishes her right of residence in the EU based on being married to an EU citizen.
Wrong.

As a non-EU citizen, she does not have the Right of Residence in the EU.

All it shows is that she is allowed to reside in the Czech Republic (likely only as long as her EU husband is living there and she is still married to him).
FloydFin wrote:It's natural that she won't be able to get the "Finnish" card unless her husband registers first and this was mentioned in my earlier reply.
Being allowed to reside in the Czech Republic does not allow her to reside in Finland.

The purpose of the EU legislation is to allow an EU citizen to live together with non-EU citizens in his family. A family member of an EU citizen living in the Czech Republic cannot reside in another EU country based on being a family member of this EU citizen.


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:29 pm

FloydFin wrote:Seriously, I don't have the time to go into lengthy arguments and I know how much you love them. The fact of the matter is, migri advised her to apply for the card without the need to apply for a permit.
The fact of the matter is that you are giving incorrect advice when you claim she would have any right of residing in Finland without her husband having to register his Right of Residence first.

Let me mark the relevant part of Migri's answer bold:
chilly2908 wrote:I already asked to migri information email about what should I do, either apply for a student residence permit or a residence permit based on family ties.
They answered me the next:
A residence card is issued to family members of EU citizens. You can apply for it at the local police station in Finland at the same time as your husband registers his residence.
So, contrary to your claim, Migri also makes it clear that she won't get a Finnish Residence Card unless her husband also moves to Finland at the same time and fulfils the prerequisites for registering his Right of Residence.

("her husband having to register his Right of Residence first" is in practice the same as "at the same time as your husband", since they can go together to the police station and she can apply for her Residence Card immediately after he registered his Right of Residence.)

FloydFin wrote:Eventually, the OP will report back once she's in Finland and we'll see.
Losing her place at university due to your incorrect advice... :-(


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:55 pm

FloydFin wrote:@Adrian I advise you to read carefully what I wrote to the OP instead of making false accusations. Obviously, you haven't understood my answers or you're mind isn't willing to accept them. It's one thing to try to prove you're right and it's another to go on the offensive by discrediting others.
Let's look carefully at what you wrote to the OP:
FloydFin wrote:
chilly2908 wrote: Do you know if having already a residence permit (for 5 years) from another EU country proves this right?
I believe yes this has already established that fact. (I edited my previous post because of that especially that migri advised you to apply for the card directly).
1. The question of the OP was whether a residence permit from another EU country would prove that she can reside in Finland.
2. The correct answer would have been: No, her right to reside in Finland based on family ties depends only on whether her spouse resides in Finland, not whether she can reside in another EU country.
3. Your answer was "I believe yes".

If 1., 2. and 3. are all true. then what you were answering was exactly the opposite of the correct answer, and it is you who has to apologize to me for trying to discredit me by accusing me of making false accusations.

If you think you did not give an incorrect answer to the OP here, please explain which number is wrong and why.

(On a sidenote, just like the spouse of a Finnish citizen living in Finland cannot get a Residence Card from the Finnish police but has to apply for a normal Residence Permit from Migri, she might not have a Residence Card but a Czech Residence Permit. But that is irrelevant since neither of those would allow her to reside in Finland - the residence of her husband is the only thing that matters.)


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:42 am

FloydFin wrote:
Adrian42 wrote: 1. The question of the OP was whether a residence permit from another EU country would prove that she can reside in Finland.
No one is claiming she 'can' reside in Finland.
You were claiming exactly that in your incorrect answer to the OP:
FloydFin wrote:
chilly2908 wrote: Do you know if having already a residence permit (for 5 years) from another EU country proves this right?
I believe yes this has already established that fact. (I edited my previous post because of that especially that migri advised you to apply for the card directly).
As a matter of fact, whether or not she has a residence permit in the Czech Republic is completely irrelevant when discussing her options for residing in Finland.

All that matters is that her husband resides in Finland, and that is neither proven by her Czech residence permit nor did you mention this in your answer.

Neither this question of the OP nor your answer talks about the requirement of her husband to reside in Finland, and that is why your answer is completely wrong - with harmful consequences for the OP had I not pointed out that your answer was wrong.
FloydFin wrote:
Adrian42 wrote: 2. The correct answer would have been: No, her right to reside in Finland based on family ties depends only on whether her spouse resides in Finland, not whether she can reside in another EU country.
I indicated that when I supplied the poliisi link for the residence card and she confirmed that her husband will be moving to Finland to work.
That was a different part of the discussion between the OP and you.

You were answering to the question of the OP whether a Czech residence permit alone was sufficient for proving her right to reside in Finland.

Your answer was I believe yes this has already established that fact.

It was me who pointed out that what you wrote was incorrect when I told No, it cannot establish the fact that her husband has work in Finland.


Adrian42
Posts: 1119
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Residence card?

Post by Adrian42 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:51 am

FloydFin wrote:
chilly2908 wrote: Do you know if having already a residence permit (for 5 years) from another EU country proves this right?
The RIGHT!! to which I answered yes. Based on the freedom of movement directive, the answer is yes! especially after we established her husband is moving too!
You continue to write complete bull$hit, and that's a fact.

For a Finnish Residence Card she will need her husband's registration of his Right of Residence in Finland and a Finnish/Swedish/English translation of her marriage certificate.

She asked whether her Czech residence permit would prove that she has the right to reside in Finland.
And contrary to the incorrect answer you gave, the Finnish police won't take her Czech residence permit as proof of anything.

It is simply absurd that you continue to repeat again and again and again the incorrect claim that her Czech residence permit would be considered proof for anything when she applies for a Residence Card in Finland.
FloydFin wrote:Based on the freedom of movement directive, the answer is yes!
You continue to write complete bull$hit, and that's a fact.

EU citizens do have the freedom of movement in the EU, she alone as non-EU citizen does not.
FloydFin wrote:especially after we established her husband is moving too!
You continue to write complete bull$hit, and that's a fact.

Her question you were answering to was whether her Czech residence permit would serve as proof of her right to reside in Finland, and that is completely unrelated to whether or not her husband moves.

And even her husband coming to Finland alone wouldn't give them the right to reside in Finland, either he finds work (unlikely) or they both need a valid health insurance and sufficient means of support (looking at the costs of living in Finland we are talking about a five digit Euro amount).


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