A cautionary tale

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biscayne
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A cautionary tale

Post by biscayne » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:45 am

Please note, not looking for sympathy etc. simply a cautionary tale.

Been on and off FF over the years, long drawn out history with Finland. On and off over the years with the "great love".....

So, he er, basically dumps most recent partner in order to give it another go with me, this time me really, truly moving. I even bought out her half of the house, had to pay a whopping amount of stamp duty on that and drained my savings which I had kept in Finland over the years, just in case. Got accepted to a masters which I don't need, just to have something to do. He does have a good income, so while he wouldn't be funding, say, a shoe habit, food, bills etc. not a problem. I have rental income too which covers my part of the mortgage.

So, here's the rub: people do change, particularly as they get older. Time moves on, a mild interest in a certain hobby is now an obsession with him, taking up every possible moment in it's season. The chatty guy over breakfast now just wants to read the paper. Noticeably a bit tight with money, although has 2 rentals, the house I bought into is a 70's nightmare and he doesn't seem too arsed to renovate.......rather do tiny bits than sell a rental and just renovate properly. Evenings (when not at the hobby thing) are just laying in fromt of telly. I irritate as take too long in bathroom etc.....(am in no way a hi-maintenance babe, own one mascara and a few lipsticks....)

So, I've gone from driving from my underground garage in my modern duplex straight to my parking space at work to taking an Onnibus journey of 5 hours nearly everyday plus from Kammpi to house etc. as the Uni is not in Helsinki. Ex took all her furniture and seems he never had much, so I contributed to the tune of 5k or more. She also invaded my skype and wrote a horrible letter (he broke up with her, not me.....)

At the end of it all, without great finnish - no job, masters or not.

If this doesn't work out, and it's looking that way, it will have cost me in the region of around 20k I'd say. I'm like a helpless baby, so used to my own car, income etc. I will be lucky if I don't have to sell my flat to finance a move to my original home country as where I was living before is not hiring in my field.

Again, no sympathy required. Simply to say to all the love sick people out there, it is easy to have the great love, but to sustain and maintain in real life - not so easy. Especially with the march of time. In fairness, the ex did write (angrily) that we should all live in the real world, not in internet, sms, social media etc (caught him texting me, methinks) - she may have a point......

Beware......



A cautionary tale

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Flossy1978
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by Flossy1978 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:38 pm

(((hugs))). I'm sorry.


biscayne
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by biscayne » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:29 am

Yes, I simply wanted to say, that even with a plan of what to do (the masters) more or less financial security at least to tide one over untill your mind is made up to stay or go, moving to Finland for a relationship can still be tricky.

I'm only "back" here a couple of weeks, trying to regain the Finnish I had, but a course (again) will be needed, and I know bloody well I won't get a job out of the masters.

So for those who want to move to their blonde, I'm just saying, be careful. I'm EU, got a uni place (oldest one on it....), have money, am educated with a wanted profession in Finland (if you speak Finnish) and it is still hard, so just beware.


niceguy40
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by niceguy40 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:29 am

long distance relationships never work out, even when you move to where they are.


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Kössi K
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by Kössi K » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:12 pm

niceguy40 wrote:long distance relationships never work out, even when you move to where they are.
Never say never.
I've seen living proof of it. They'll work, if you're compatible - why would that be any different to any other type of relationship? Although keeping it long-distance forever, in many cases causes all kinds of strain and problems. Again, still depends entirely on the people in question, I've seen many examples of those working and not working. People's needs, views and lives vary so drastically that one simply cannot put them all in one preset category of a long-distance relationship.

Moving to where the other one is has the same chances of working out than any other relationship, regardless of where/how you've originally met; be it in a local bar, library or out-of-town. However, can it even be labeled under 'long distance' after that, though?
Joha mie sanoi, vaikken mittää virkkant.


biscayne
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by biscayne » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:48 am

Long distance relationships never work out even when you move - ha, actually there might be something to that, expectations being too high and real life coming into play etc....

Otherwise, just having one of those bizzarely, only in Finland type of experiences. The hobby I was referring to is sailing, total obsession. So off sailing this weekend and as the boat sleeps 6 to 8 there are some others too on board. So I am here, with not one person speaking to me for the duration....they all speak English by the way. I completely understand that it's annoying to change the whole situation for one person. Been there, done that, so I'm fine with it and can keep my mouth shut in any given situation, but just trying to imagine some Italian or chatty South American who just wouldn't get it......

There is also one wench on board who seems to,have an issue with me for whatever reason and trying to get a rise out of me (I can understand enough to hear her asking why I am here, why I don't speak Finnish, basically who the f&&& am I and why am I here as I'm not part of the sailing fraternity)

It's actually funny in a bizarre kind of way! Just to warn people moving purely for a relationship, do be careful, really research it, spend as much time here as you can seeing how does this person really live, who the friends, hobbies etc are. Bog standard relationship advice, I know, but you'd be amazed...... Oh, and have a plan B.....


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David Junior
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by David Junior » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:05 pm

biscayne wrote:Long distance relationships never work out even when you move - ha, actually there might be something to that, expectations being too high and real life coming into play etc....

Otherwise, just having one of those bizzarely, only in Finland type of experiences. The hobby I was referring to is sailing, total obsession. So off sailing this weekend and as the boat sleeps 6 to 8 there are some others too on board. So I am here, with not one person speaking to me for the duration....they all speak English by the way. I completely understand that it's annoying to change the whole situation for one person. Been there, done that, so I'm fine with it and can keep my mouth shut in any given situation, but just trying to imagine some Italian or chatty South American who just wouldn't get it......

There is also one wench on board who seems to,have an issue with me for whatever reason and trying to get a rise out of me (I can understand enough to hear her asking why I am here, why I don't speak Finnish, basically who the f&&& am I and why am I here as I'm not part of the sailing fraternity)

It's actually funny in a bizarre kind of way! Just to warn people moving purely for a relationship, do be careful, really research it, spend as much time here as you can seeing how does this person really live, who the friends, hobbies etc are. Bog standard relationship advice, I know, but you'd be amazed...... Oh, and have a plan B.....

Hello there Biscayne,


I read the all thread... I am not sure if you are referring to your wife ( and you are the foreign husband ) or to your husband ( and you are his foreign wife ).

Anyway I ' ve heard stories of married couples in which the finnish partner is relatively mentally unstable and after some times goes bananas.
Not sure what is your situation now... also with reference to the house that you 2 bought together.

Don't see in either case the reason you should put up with any obsessive behaviour being his/her ... not to talk about the friend...

What is your plan B ?

Best regards,

:-)


Upphew
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by Upphew » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:46 pm

David Junior wrote: Hello there Biscayne,


I read the all thread... I am not sure if you are referring to your wife ( and you are the foreign husband ) or to your husband ( and you are his foreign wife ).

Anyway I ' ve heard stories of married couples in which the finnish partner is relatively mentally unstable and after some times goes bananas.
Not sure what is your situation now... also with reference to the house that you 2 bought together.

Don't see in either case the reason you should put up with any obsessive behaviour being his/her ... not to talk about the friend...

What is your plan B ?

Best regards,

:-)
Read the thread with more thought ;)
biscayne wrote:So, he er, basically dumps most recent partner in order to give it another go with me
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Kössi K
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by Kössi K » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:07 pm

And yeah, I sympathize, Biscayne. Sorry to hear it isn't working out for you. But at least you've already started thinking about a plan B (or already have one), to do the Master's, etc. It's a good start.

However, I'll also have to say that the situation you're describing can happen to anyone, regardless of their nationality or whether they are both Finns or from different countries originally. I've personally have that happen in a 5-year relationship, with a Finnish guy. (I'm a Finn, myself.) The chatty, outgoing guy changed quite a bit over the years, also having me do most of the renovation work in our old house, etc., etc. I've also had a guy who was the sweetest of them all outwardly but after we moved in together, he started beating me up. (That was a looong time ago in my 20s, but just another example of people changing). So yeah, you sometimes can't see it coming. Even with really well done groundwork and searching, meeting their friends and family and all.

Just saying, it can happen to any couple after they move in together. And indeed, often because of expectations not living up to the reality. I'm sure someone will point out that people from different backgrounds will have more to get accustomed to, that is true. But people do change as they get older, it's a simple fact. And some people just tend to portray themselves as something they are not, from the beginning.
Joha mie sanoi, vaikken mittää virkkant.


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David Junior
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by David Junior » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:01 pm

Ok.

So it is the finnish husband that went coo-coo.

Apart from the "obsession" with sailing, and I will not comment upon that, it strikes me the circumstance that Biscayne has reported
about the "friend" on the boat that is talking badly about her thinking she does not understand
... and the so called husband doesn't say anything ?

Really !?

Sorry to sound harsh but I don't call that a man, in all honesty ... finn or not finn.. or whatever it is... that is a human "cockroach" ...

Then again ... I don't think you should take any demeaning comments from anybody.

Pity you even bought the other half of the house from the previous girlfriend/wife...
and bought also the new furniture for him.


biscayne
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by biscayne » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:04 pm

Just wanted to clarify. I am not using the forum to have a whine and a moan, honestly. This really is just a cautionary tale for people who write (regularly) to the forum along the lines of "I met the most fantastic blond and want to move to him or her asap, how do I do that???" Then a few months later they write back saying it did not work out, they are out of money and what do they do.

I'm saying that in my situation where I have a long history with this person, I am older, financially secure in a way, meaning I have a bit extra and I own my home in my own country outright plus a flat in a country I was living in for years so I can sell something if it all goes tits up here, I found a masters to do to give me something to do while learning finnish so I can go back into my job of nursing, but it still may not work out, if you get me.

Plan B is to go home. Have a place to go to and enough to last until I find work, unless that took 2 years or something.

Regarding people changing etc., well absolutely, but there you go. Love is blind. And deaf and dumb seemingly....


macora
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by macora » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:24 pm

biscayne wrote: Otherwise, just having one of those bizzarely, only in Finland type of experiences. .
What I honestly begin to find bizarre, is what people call "only in Finland". The difficult Finnish language is obviously (nearly) "only in Finland". Same principles apply to any language that is fairly far from your own, though. Try to get by in Korea without fluent Korean (choosing Korean as an example due to its super easy writing). Also, as others mentioned, people change. That this is even more so when close relationships get more serious, is common knowledge since many decades that I know of. Probably longer. All around the world.

Not knowing the language of the country will make one feel helpless. Kinda not the problem of the country though. And entirely in your hands to change. With Kammpi, does OP per chance mean Kamppi? Try to live in the US speaking of Chirago, Flonx, after years of living there, no less. Americans have another take on language altogether so it is hard to compare. But even there one will not find that much respect for "murdering the language", as I heard Americans call that.
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biscayne
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by biscayne » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:08 pm

In general, you are quite right. However, most people arriving to Finland or Korea for that matter are not able to speak the language as generally people don't study the less common languages and learn them only on a needs basis. Thus, there is always going to be a period of adjustment until you learn that language and in the interim period most people rely on English at least in a European context. It is true that many people simply don't bother to learn Finnish, or other languages either even when living in a country. I lately lived in a small EU country and spoke/speak that language fluently, but knew people who had lived there 20 years and did not.

The reality is, no matter how non-native English speakers may feel about it, is that English has become the "go to" language, as it is impossible to learn every single language. For us, there is no "logical" second language that you immediately choose - do you choose French? Spanish? German? Yes, it absolves us from linguistic responsibility, but that situation has been created over time and it does not change the fact that by using English you can manage everywhere, someone will,produce an English speaker, with Finnish you cannot do the same.

My specific situation referred to the fact that I was simply ignored in a social situation, and that actually is something more likely to happen in Finland and less so in other countries, I have lived in several and never experienced it - locals were curious and attempted to use their English or any other language I spoke at whatever level they could. Yes, it is superficial friendliness, and I would be the first to admit that and to suggest that Finns are more sincere once you are "in"... If you noted from my post, I was not complaining but rather laughing at it as I do have some limited experience of Finland and it can be par for the course here. I doubt I am the first on the forum to have experienced this.

Regarding my spelling of "Kamppi" - it was a typo.


Jacquelineh
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by Jacquelineh » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:27 pm

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while and I can share my feeling with you. I'm from Asia and have moved here to study and well "explore the world". More or less I can relate to your situation. I kinda had the same situation with my ex Norwegian boyfriend. I was lost and blue for a while, but then eventually I was back to a normal life with my own plans. Now I am dating a Finnish guy, but not so sure about our future because I still want to go here and there. If it happens like the last time, I will know for sure this time I will get over it. And after all, those incidents will lead you to some surprising corners of life. Are you happy with your life at the moment? Have you tried discussing with your boyfriend about your concerns? And then consider whether all of those deserve your efforts. Anyway, as I read what you share, I am certain that you are a strong woman, and you can live in no matter what situation. Just be sure that you feel happy! :)


macora
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Re: A cautionary tale

Post by macora » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:38 pm

biscayne wrote: My specific situation referred to the fact that I was simply ignored in a social situation, and that actually is something more likely to happen in Finland and less so in other countries, I have lived in several and never experienced it - locals were curious and attempted to use their English or any other language I spoke at whatever level they could. Yes, it is superficial friendliness, and I would be the first to admit that and to suggest that Finns are more sincere once you are "in"... If you noted from my post, I was not complaining but rather laughing at it as I do have some limited experience of Finland and it can be par for the course here. I doubt I am the first on the forum to have experienced this.

Regarding my spelling of "Kamppi" - it was a typo.
More likely here, I guess. Definitely happens in other countries, too. Without thinking too far I have witnessed similar situations in Switzerland, France, Germany, Austria, Norway, Spain, just to name a few. I do not understand much Norwegian, the other languages I do understand enough to understand what the local person you call "wench" would have said.

I actually do begin to think English as the go-to language, as you call it, is more a curse, than a blessing, for the English speakers themselves. Long before I registered on this forum I was curious what other immigrants to Finland had to tell, especially about the language. I asked each and every immigrant I met the same questions: how long did it take you to fluency in Finnish. To have some sort of "measure" what fluency means to them, I also asked, how they rate their Finnish compared to their English. Very unscientific, but better than nothing.

Taxi driver #1: French with North-African roots, used to work as a waiter in restaurants, pretty good English, my guess would be B1, maybe B2. Fluency in Finnish after 2 years in the country, no former training. He was lucky since he had found a job where he absolutely needed the language in a restaurant (notice that he found the job obviously before he was fluent). Competence in Finnish better than English, according to him. He had been married to a Finn, now divorced, staying due to kids, but quite happily integrated.
Taxi driver #2: Somali refugee, English at A2, maybe B1. Took him 3 years to fluency. A bit apologetically he mentions that after 2 years he got a bit lazy. With more effort he could get a lot better, sooner. Finnish according to him a bit better than English. Reason for getting a bit lazy: Somali family, does not need more of the language for the job, and to get by well with the Finns he meets.
etc.

Then I read this forum and people tell, and argue quite impressively, that Finnish takes at least 5 - 10 years to learn to fluency. First I thought it is maybe because many English speakers are not used to learning languages, and it therefore takes longer for them. May be part of the problem. But even then, it is a rather huge difference, and frankly, several people I asked were not exactly PhD graduates, either. I started to check the textbooks for the most common teaching mistakes, and some textbooks indeed commit them on a rather regular basis. But there are really good Finnish textbooks in wide use, too. In the meantime I think my first Finnish teacher here, was spot on: the biggest problem to learning Finnish is the locals switching to English so fast. Or, seen from the other side, English speakers expecting anything other than the local language. If one wants to move on soonish anyway, why not sticking to English. If one wants to stay, and be taken seriously by the locals, may want to reconsider whether English as expected go-to language is in one's own interest. Every Finn who is NOT switching to English, helps the foreigner learn. People who do not have a safety cushion to fall back to, simply HAVE to learn.

I currently am having great fun every now and then listening to a Finnish teacher describing how she teaches a class of 16 different mother tongues, of which a whopping 2 people understand some English. Priceless. Those people gobble up every language morsel they can gather, and put it to use immediately. They are not waiting for the partner to utter a couple Finnish sentences for them, they learn them themselves.

And just for clarity: that is not the fault of anyone, neither English speakers, nor Finns (or insert any locals who like their own languages, all around the world).

Anyway. All the best to OP. Always sucks to find out the partner is not what one expected. In any country, and in any language.
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