Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

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annz_l
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Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by annz_l » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:36 pm

Hello!

Im from 3rd world country (no need for visa for the firsts 3 months), came to finland to be with my boyfriend to get married and now I discovered Im pregnant ( :D 5 weeks). I will receive some documents (proving that im single, requirement for the marriage licence) next week, so we can have a soon as possible wedding.

I would like some advice on how to get a residence permit as fast a possible so I can get medical insurance asap so I can get pre natal checkups and such.
Id hate to lose some maternity rights because this could take extensive time and we dont have much money to take on all the costs of pregnancy and delivery.

Can I speed up the process of the permit due to pregnancy, or they will allow me to get in the social security so I can get my pre natal care?

Thank you!



Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

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Beep_Boop
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Beep_Boop » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:11 pm

Make a free-form request to the same authority with whom you made the application for your residence permit. Only they can assess your situation and make a decision. Asking random people online about such subjective matter is useless.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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Piet
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Piet » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:32 pm

annz_l wrote:Hello!

Im from 3rd world country (no need for visa for the firsts 3 months), came to finland to be with my boyfriend to get married and now I discovered Im pregnant ( :D 5 weeks). I will receive some documents (proving that im single, requirement for the marriage licence) next week, so we can have a soon as possible wedding.

I would like some advice on how to get a residence permit as fast a possible so I can get medical insurance asap so I can get pre natal checkups and such.
Id hate to lose some maternity rights because this could take extensive time and we dont have much money to take on all the costs of pregnancy and delivery.

Can I speed up the process of the permit due to pregnancy, or they will allow me to get in the social security so I can get my pre natal care?

Thank you!
No speeding up, First get married!!! after that all goes quick, can be done in 1 day (not the decisions but all the appointments :wink: ) if the "boyfriend / husband to be" is Finnish or has a permanent residence permit.


1) As soon as you are married with a Finn or someone with a permanent residence permit, take the papers from "magistraati" and go to the police office to register you are living with your husband in Finland and you will automatically (get) have a residence permit.
2) After this, go immediately to Kela and register there, mention that you are pregnant,
3) then go to TE.office and register as a job seeker, mention that you are pregnant.
4) than go back to Kela to request unemployment benefits (you will not get them immediately but better be quick with requesting them).

When you and your husband are in immediate financial need, go together to the social office to request financial support there until all other regular benefits are sorted out.
Be (or at least act) gratefull for their help and don't hesitate to ask again if you do not understand something, be polite and understanding...this will get you quicker where you want to be with the help you need.

5)As soon as you get your kela (card) number, make an appointment with neuvola (Finnish institute most similar with consultation bureau or pregnancy / child healthcare centre)
And than all will go as it should, remember to change your job seeking status later in your pregancy to "motherhood leave" if this doesn't go automatically.
For more info. see infopankki.fi a great recource for information for foreigners.

Congratulations, you just won the lottery. (if the father is Finnish, after birth the child will be too, this means you can stay in Finland indefinitely, even if you divorce your Finnish husband next year, as long as you keep taking care of the child as the mother....telling you just in case the Father might want to blackmail you in the future when you get your second or third big argument and he threatens to divorce you so you have to leave the country... that is not true :wink: )

However
If your boyfriend / husband to be is not Finnish and does not have a permanent residence permit, I am afraid you are out of luck and you probably are not even allowed to stay in Finland unless your (by then) husband his income is higher than the required minimum and he is providing for all your financial needs, no health insurance, no unemployment benefits etc...

if I made any errors in this summary, I am sure adnan (some kind of wizard of oz on this forum :lol: :lol: ) will point them out for you.. :wink:
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Beep_Boop
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Beep_Boop » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:05 am

As usual, you have it all wrong, Piet. I'm not gonna waste my time point out each wrong bit. Suffice to say, OP, ignore the entirety of his comment.

At some point, I hope, you'll stop spreading misinformation. I know you're not intentionally doing it, but you're still ignorant. Until you inform yourself, I suggest you refrain from offering "help" on these topics. Of course, that's just my advice. You're free to do whatever you want.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:30 am

annz_l wrote: I would like some advice on how to get a residence permit as fast a possible so I can get medical insurance asap so I can get pre natal checkups and such.
Id hate to lose some maternity rights because this could take extensive time and we dont have much money to take on all the costs of pregnancy and delivery.

Can I speed up the process of the permit due to pregnancy, or they will allow me to get in the social security so I can get my pre natal care?
Kela coverage starts from the day of arrival:

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 931573.pdf

"Social security legislation is applied to persons moving to Finland from the date of arrival in the country, if the person, taking into account his/her circumstances as a whole, is considered to move to Finland to reside in the country on a permanent basis."

You will get reimbursed if you need to go out of pocket while applications are pending (I would ask them to delay the invoices as a first choice). Consult social office if this doesn't suffice.


Rosamunda
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Rosamunda » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:40 pm

Does this apply even if the OP came here as a "tourist"? Would it make a difference if she was/was not pregnant when she arrived in Finland?

Just curious.


Rip
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Rip » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:52 pm

Rosamunda wrote:Does this apply even if the OP came here as a "tourist"? Would it make a difference if she was/was not pregnant when she arrived in Finland?

Just curious.

perhaps not, but then it would not make much difference if they'd date the coverage start from marriage or application date.
If a person is not considered to move to Finland permanently when arriving in the country but the condition can be considered to be met later, social security legislation is applied to the person from the date when the condition is met.


leisl
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by leisl » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:34 pm

I don't think the conception date matters. But there is a registration point by weeks-pregnant. And I think that is related to whether you get things like the baby box and the maternity payment. I know this because I knew two pregnant ladies here with their non-Finnish working spouses and one got the box and payment. And one did not because it was too late for her to register for it. She had to pay significant costs herself. Both got kela payments after the births though.

I think the OP has plenty of time though. It was like 2nd/3rd trimester that it was too late.


Oho
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Oho » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:05 pm

leisl wrote:.

I think the OP has plenty of time though. It was like 2nd/3rd trimester that it was too late.
Well I rather think she is going to need all the time she has. For what its worth from the perspective of Finnish authorities she is essentially a tourist who got herself knocked up. Cynic in me thinks it sounds like a plan......


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Piet
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Piet » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:52 pm

adnan wrote:As usual, you have it all wrong, Piet. I'm not gonna waste my time point out each wrong bit. Suffice to say, OP, ignore the entirety of his comment.

At some point, I hope, you'll stop spreading misinformation. I know you're not intentionally doing it, but you're still ignorant. Until you inform yourself, I suggest you refrain from offering "help" on these topics. Of course, that's just my advice. You're free to do whatever you want.
As usual?
I just told you a live example of what happened to me (slightly adapted to the new rules according to my dutch friend his experience when he came here 6 years ago), with that difference that I am not female, it was more than 20 years ago I got here so rules might have changed a bit (more tight on possible fake marriages) but in general not that different.

So as far as your comment on ignoring and not wanting to point out the errors this time... what happened to you, are you residing to trolling only nowadays, don't you have any actual help /advise to offer for this person other than telling her not to ask in your view dumb questions on a forum? Someone pissed in your soup? come-on grumpy....

(to explain that adnan is grumpy: he says I have it ALL wrong, so in his words when you are married to a finn and you have a finnish kid to take care of, that does not grant you a permanent residence permit, HE says... what he should have said is that is is not that short as I stated, the actual steps take a bit more effort, you gotta fill in some forms more and take longer but basically the outcome is the same, you will get a permit and after 4 years staying in Finland, it will become permanent if you request it...but the police will tell you all about it when you go register living with your husband and requesting your stay permit based on family ties the day after you are married.
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Beep_Boop
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Beep_Boop » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:22 pm

Piet wrote:so in his words when you are married to a finn and you have a finnish kid to take care of, that does not grant you a permanent residence permit
Yes, this is correct. Even if you're married to a Finn and you have a Finnish kid, you don't get a permanent residence permit. You get a 1 year (sometimes 4) type A residence permit. After 4 years, you can apply again with a different form and, if your situation is still the same, you get a permanent residence permit. This is very different from "getting a residence permit once you register your relationship".
If, after a couple of years, you get divorced and your husband gets custody, then no residence permit for you, and certainly no permanent residence permit. You cannot mangle those steps into one "register your relationship" step.
Piet wrote:don't you have any actual help /advise to offer for this person other than telling her not to ask in your view dumb questions on a forum?
To quote my first comment: "Make a free-form request to the same authority with whom you made the application for your residence permit."
This is the way to make expedition requests, and it was the first thing I said.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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Piet
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by Piet » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:26 pm

Apparently Adnan reads my remark "getting a residence permit" in my first post, as "getting a permanent residence permit"... here lays the foundation of his confusion about my posts... it seems he also needs a little sleep now and then :wink:

And even when I would have said that in the first post, then still you will get it after 4 years as he said too! so again very semantic here....
adnan wrote:
Piet wrote:so in his words when you are married to a finn and you have a finnish kid to take care of, that does not grant you a permanent residence permit
Yes, this is correct. Even if you're married to a Finn and you have a Finnish kid, you don't get a permanent residence permit. You get a 1 year (sometimes 4) type A residence permit. After 4 years, you can apply again with a different form and, if your situation is still the same, you get a permanent residence permit. This is very different from "getting a residence permit once you register your relationship".
If, after a couple of years, you get divorced and your husband gets custody, then no residence permit for you, and certainly no permanent residence permit. You cannot mangle those steps into one "register your relationship" step.
Piet wrote:don't you have any actual help /advise to offer for this person other than telling her not to ask in your view dumb questions on a forum?
To quote my first comment: "Make a free-form request to the same authority with whom you made the application for your residence permit."
This is the way to make expedition requests, and it was the first thing I said.
I said:
1) As soon as you are married with a Finn or someone with a permanent residence permit, take the papers from "magistraati" and go to the police office to register you are living with your husband in Finland and you will automatically (get) have a residence permit.
what I forgot to add was the words at the end "when requested" that means you have to apply for it at that same moment by filling in a form at the same time as registering your address... so we are talking semantics here?

like here:
even if you divorce your Finnish husband next year, as long as you keep taking care of the child as the mother....
you respond:
if, after a couple of years, you get divorced and your husband gets custody, then no residence permit for you, and certainly no permanent residence permit. You cannot mangle those steps into one "register your relationship" step.
isn't that just repeating what I said but than in a negative way, "glass is half full glass is half empty" thing here??


you could also just have quoted the following:
If your spouse is a Finnish citizen who resides in Finland or will move to Finland, you may apply for a residence permit for yourself on the basis of family ties. The same applies to persons of the same gender who have registered their partnership.

The granting of a residence permit will not require you to have a secure means of livelihood.
Filling in the application

Fill in form OLE_PH2 carefully and include all the necessary appendices, details of which can be found on the form. Any missing information will delay the processing of your application.

Fill in the form in Finnish, Swedish or English. The appendices must also be in one of the above languages. Use an official translator when having your documents translated.

A marriage certificate or certificate of registered partnership must be presented, as appropriate. Certificates issued by other than Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish or Icelandic authorities must be legalised. If a Finnish citizen has married abroad, the marriage must be registered in Finland at a local register office. When the marriage has been registered at a local register office in Finland, you do not need to attach a marriage certificate to your residence permit application.
so my advise stands:

1 get married (in Finland, this is most easy due to paperwork being in Finnish already)
2 go to the police and do all the resident related paperwork (based on family ties! and don't forget the Finnish social security number...tickbox on the form if I remember correctly)
3 go to Kela do the social paperwork
4 go to TE office do the job paperwork
5 go back to kela do more social paperwork
6 go to social office do temporary social paperwork and ask advise
7 make an appointment with neuvola for a baby checkup / registration

Check up on progress regularly, especially Kela and TE office are known for their F**k-ups.
forget calling them, visit them, even for making appointments, visit them!
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betelgeuse
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:04 pm

Piet wrote:Apparently Adnan reads my remark "getting a residence permit" in my first post, as "getting a permanent residence permit"... here lays the foundation of his confusion about my posts... it seems he also needs a little sleep now and then :wink:

And even when I would have said that in the first post, then still you will get it after 4 years as he said too! so again very semantic here....
Ok I will do the work of listing the problems in your initial post. I will not cross reference with the later posts in this thread because of the work involved.
Piet wrote: No speeding up, First get married!!! after that all goes quick, can be done in 1 day (not the decisions but all the appointments :wink: ) if the "boyfriend / husband to be" is Finnish or has a permanent residence permit.
The husband does not need to have a permanent residence permit. A family permit can be given to even family members of temporary residence permit holders. The main thing is that the income requirement is satisfied. However, Kela access will not be available necessarily on a temporary permit.
Piet wrote: 1) As soon as you are married with a Finn or someone with a permanent residence permit, take the papers from "magistraati" and go to the police office to register you are living with your husband in Finland and you will automatically (get) have a residence permit.
The fact that you are living together is a matter for the population register. This update will be done through posti or maistraatti. The application for residence permit at the police is not automatic for anyone. If the husband is Finnish, it's much easier because the income requirement is waived.

At the police one should also apply for the identity card because it makes dealing with banks easier.
Piet wrote: 2) After this, go immediately to Kela and register there, mention that you are pregnant,

At 5 weeks the pregnancy has no relevance for the initial application to be covered by Kela.
Piet wrote: 3) then go to TE.office and register as a job seeker, mention that you are pregnant.
at TE office mentioning that you are pregnant can go against you as they want to see that people are looking for full time employment.
Piet wrote: 4) than go back to Kela to request unemployment benefits (you will not get them immediately but better be quick with requesting them).
As a note for 2-4 with the identity card it's possible to identify online. However, I have seen the TE-keskus online service refuse to work for non EU citizens.
Piet wrote: When you and your husband are in immediate financial need, go together to the social office to request financial support there until all other regular benefits are sorted out.
Be (or at least act) gratefull for their help and don't hesitate to ask again if you do not understand something, be polite and understanding...this will get you quicker where you want to be with the help you need.
This is correct.
Piet wrote: 5)As soon as you get your kela (card) number, make an appointment with neuvola (Finnish institute most similar with consultation bureau or pregnancy / child healthcare centre)
Reasonable but the first visit is some weeks later in the pregnancy:

http://www.terveyskirjasto.fi/terveyski ... i=dlk00885

"Ensimmäinen lääkärintarkastus 10-18 raskausviikolla"
Piet wrote: And than all will go as it should, remember to change your job seeking status later in your pregancy to "motherhood leave" if this doesn't go automatically.
For more info. see infopankki.fi a great recource for information for foreigners.
http://www.kela.fi/web/en/maternal-leave

The leave can only be started closer to estimated delivery date: "Maternity leave starts before the child's estimated date of delivery. You start your maternity leave at least 30 working days (about 5 weeks) before the estimated date of delivery. If you wish, you can start maternity leave earlier, starting 50 working days (just over 2 months) before the estimated date of delivery at the earliest. "
Piet wrote: Congratulations, you just won the lottery. (if the father is Finnish, after birth the child will be too, this means you can stay in Finland indefinitely, even if you divorce your Finnish husband next year, as long as you keep taking care of the child as the mother....telling you just in case the Father might want to blackmail you in the future when you get your second or third big argument and he threatens to divorce you so you have to leave the country... that is not true :wink: )
adnan already explained the error here. You can loose custody even if you have visitation rights. Only a guardian can get a residence permit.
Piet wrote: However
If your boyfriend / husband to be is not Finnish and does not have a permanent residence permit, I am afraid you are out of luck and you probably are not even allowed to stay in Finland unless your (by then) husband his income is higher than the required minimum and he is providing for all your financial needs, no health insurance, no unemployment benefits etc...
This repeats the error that income requirement would not apply to family members of permanent residence permit holders. The part about no health insurance or unemployment benefits is also wrong. They are available to, for example, family members of A permit holders.

Then one final correction for the last post:
Piet wrote: 2 go to the police and do all the resident related paperwork (based on family ties! and don't forget the Finnish social security number...tickbox on the form if I remember correctly)
It's a personal identity code. It was called social security number last time in the 70s.


StellaS
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by StellaS » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:46 am

Just a note about neuvola: the first visit should be at around seven or eight weeks and it's with a nurse. If you have a normal pregnancy, you'll only see a doctor twice, once sometime in the second trimester and a second time at around 35 weeks.


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onkko
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Re: Speedy Residence Permit due to pregnancy

Post by onkko » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:45 am

StellaS wrote:Just a note about neuvola: the first visit should be at around seven or eight weeks and it's with a nurse. If you have a normal pregnancy, you'll only see a doctor twice, once sometime in the second trimester and a second time at around 35 weeks.
Neuvola dont care about your visas, I really hope that this is truth while i want illegals to be kicked out. Its a child.
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum


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