Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

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Rosamunda
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:07 am

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by Rosamunda » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:07 pm

slow nick wrote: My mother may well have brought me here on her British passport, as Finland did not join the EU until 1995.
If you were on your mother's passport (which was the usual way things were done in the 1980s and early 90s) then you are already a GB citizen. My kids were all added to my passport when they were born (in France) and only got Finnish passports when we moved here and their GB passports eventually expired. It was (way) cheaper to get Finnish passports for them.



Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

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slow nick
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Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by slow nick » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:26 pm

Rosamunda wrote:If you were on your mother's passport (which was the usual way things were done in the 1980s and early 90s) then you are already a GB citizen.
What makes you think this? British nationality rules are quite clear, I have read the whole of the British Nationality Act 1981, and there is no mention of acquiring citizenship by simply being added to a passport.


Rosamunda
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Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by Rosamunda » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:12 am

Probably because the two are unrelated. You were born a British citizen (you didn't "acquire" it) therefore, all that was needed to add you to your mother's passport was a birth certificate. Did you check with the British Embassy in Helsinki if your birth was registered with them? In the 80s/90s there was still a consulate in Helsinki that could deliver passports. Your mother may have simply gone there (you didn't even need an appointment - those were the days!) and got you added.

I did the same in Paris. Walked into the consulate with my baby's birth certificate and had him added to my passport. There was no photo in those days (early 90s) just the name and DOB typed in the back pages. Really! It's no wonder the law changed: it was way too easy to move babies across borders!

(My kids' father was NOT able to have the children (at least not our eldest, born 92) added to his passport because, at that time, Finnish citizenship couldn't go from father to child if the baby was not born in Finland. The law changed soon after. Not relevant to your case though.)


Rip
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by Rip » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:29 am

Rosamunda wrote: (My kids' father was NOT able to have the children (at least not our eldest, born 92) added to his passport because, at that time, Finnish citizenship couldn't go from father to child if the baby was not born in Finland. The law changed soon after. Not relevant to your case though.)
1 §

Lapsi saa syntyessään Suomen kansalaisuuden:
(...)

2) jos isä on Suomen kansalainen ja avioliitossa lapsen äidin kanssa;
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/k ... 8/19680401
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/1968/19680401


slow nick
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by slow nick » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:58 am

Rosamunda wrote:Probably because the two are unrelated. You were born a British citizen (you didn't "acquire" it) therefore, all that was needed to add you to your mother's passport was a birth certificate.
Your children acquired British citizenship automatically at birth as they were born outside the UK and at least one of the parents (you) was at the time a British citizen otherwise than by descent. The children are British citizens by descent. The difference is that British citizens by descent cannot automatically pass British citizenship onto their own children if they are born outside the UK. If your children have their own children in France (for example), they will not be British.

BNA 1981: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2
2 Acquisition by descent.

(1)A person born outside the United Kingdom [and the qualifying territories] after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth his father or mother—

(a)is a British citizen otherwise than by descent
My mother was a British citizen by descent. It did not pass on to me because I was also born outside the UK. I don't know how I got to the UK as I arrived in 1991 and Finland did not join the EU until 1995. My mother might have had me on her passport, or she may have brought me in with a visa, or I may have had no status at all for a few years. I don't know.

I believe Finnish men can only pass Finnish citizenship down to children born outside of Finland if they are married to the mother. Since 2006, British citizenship passes down equally from mother or father to children born outside the UK regardless of marriage.

Anyway, we've drifted quite off topic here. If anyone has any input relating to my original question, that would be excellent :)


Rip
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Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by Rip » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:49 pm

slow nick wrote:Anyway, we've drifted quite off topic here. If anyone has any input relating to my original question, that would be excellent :)

People gave their guesses during the first posts; hard knowledge seems to be hard to find.

You are not one of them, but actually they would seem like people that would know the legal implications of your planned cause of action. They even have listed a legal aid email/phone number on the right margin:
http://akl-web.fi/en/
(Finnish Union of Conscientious Objectors)

The military would know better still, but likely they'd (not entirely unreasonably) think it is not in their interest too helpful.


slow nick
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by slow nick » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:36 am

For anyone interested, I have some updates on this.

I received British citizenship this month at last. Once my British passport arrives (hopefully next week) I will visit the London embassy to register my new nationality in the Finnish population database.

Hopefully everything will be sorted out soon :)


Rosamunda
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:07 am

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:27 pm

Well that's good timing!

I re-read all the posts and I think Betelgueuse and Rip have nailed the statutes whereby having British citizenship and strong ties to the UK (job, home, family etc) will exempt you from doing military service in Finland. So there is no need for you to renounce your Finnish citizenship in order to avoid the call up.

Given the results of the referendum and the current state of confusion, I think it would be a good idea to keep your Finnish citizenship and re-apply for exemption from military service rather than renounce it. Having UK + EU passport might be useful in the future.

Good luck.


slow nick
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Consequences of 'dodging' military service?

Post by slow nick » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:43 pm

Rosamunda wrote:Well that's good timing!

I re-read all the posts and I think Betelgueuse and Rip have nailed the statutes whereby having British citizenship and strong ties to the UK (job, home, family etc) will exempt you from doing military service in Finland. So there is no need for you to renounce your Finnish citizenship in order to avoid the call up.

Given the results of the referendum and the current state of confusion, I think it would be a good idea to keep your Finnish citizenship and re-apply for exemption from military service rather than renounce it. Having UK + EU passport might be useful in the future.

Good luck.
My thoughts exactly. I will update once I have some more news :)


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