Work for NASA but living in Finland?

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CodeToTheStars
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Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by CodeToTheStars » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:09 pm

Hi! I'm a software engineer for NASA. I am allowed to work remote, full-time. I'd love to move my family to Finland for a year and live there while working remotely for NASA. Is this a possible scenario? Or, do I have to have a job in Finland in order to live there for any length of time?



Work for NASA but living in Finland?

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betelgeuse
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:33 pm

CodeToTheStars wrote:Hi! I'm a software engineer for NASA. I am allowed to work remote, full-time. I'd love to move my family to Finland for a year and live there while working remotely for NASA. Is this a possible scenario?
Yes.


CodeToTheStars
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by CodeToTheStars » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:43 am

Thank you so much! I'll start looking into what we have to do now to get the ball rolling.

Thanks, again!

Kevin


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by Beep_Boop » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:00 am

betelgeuse's answer is probably incorrect for your case, but it's mostly your fault because you provided very little information.

Yes, there's no restriction about living in Finland and working remotely for a company in the U.S. However, in order to move to Finland, you need a reason to be given a residence permit for you and your family. To be given a residence permit, you'll need based on employment at a Finnish employer or a foreign employer with operations in Finland, studies in a Finnish institution, family ties to someone living in Finland, and a few other reasons that probably don't apply to you.

So you cannot just waltz into Finland just because you have a job somewhere.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:05 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:To be given a residence permit, you'll need based on employment at a Finnish employer or a foreign employer with operations in Finland
Please point the section that says this is in the Aliens Act because this would be news to me.


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by Beep_Boop » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:15 pm

betelgeuse wrote:Please point the section that says this is in the Aliens Act because this would be news to me.
Read the guidelines from the implementors of the law, Migri. http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:55 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:Please point the section that says this is in the Aliens Act because this would be news to me.
Read the guidelines from the implementors of the law, Migri. http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland
The law has precedence over migri guidelines so I read the law. Any way the page you linked has nothing that would support your position. Bureaucratically speaking the easiest permit is as an entrepreneur and registering as a sole trader in Finland. It's likely CodeToTheStars has a degree, so a specialist permit is also applicable. It's Vero who care whether there's a permanent establishment, not Migri.


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by Beep_Boop » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:13 pm

So are you saying that anybody who is employed in any job in the world that allows remote work can simply move to Finland? And the law allows that?

So now any Ivan or Vikash can open a small business in Russia or India, claim they work remotely, and then simply move to Finland? Are you telling me that specialist RP is applicable to a case where your employer is the U.S. and did not send you to Finland?
If that's the case, I'd more than happy to see the part of the law that supports your statement since you answered first in the 2nd comment.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:59 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:So are you saying that anybody who is employed in any job in the world that allows remote work can simply move to Finland? And the law allows that?
No. It can be prevented by for example by a negative partial decision from TE services (does not apply to specialists). CodeToTheStars asked if it was a possible scenario not whether it was certain.
Beep_Boop wrote: So now any Ivan or Vikash can open a small business in Russia or India, claim they work remotely, and then simply move to Finland?
Yes if it makes enough income to support them in Finland. I think it's a sensible policy because the result is paying Finnish taxes with foreign income.
Beep_Boop wrote: Are you telling me that specialist RP is applicable to a case where your employer is the U.S. and did not send you to Finland?
Yes.
Beep_Boop wrote:If that's the case, I'd more than happy to see the part of the law that supports your statement since you answered first in the 2nd comment.
Here I assume a degree. For background let's start with the constitution 1:18.1 §:
Everyone has the right, as provided by an Act, to earn his or her livelihood by the employment, occupation or commercial activity of his or her choice. The public authorities shall take responsibility for the protection of the labour force.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 990731.pdf

I might be reaching for applicability to first residence permits but it does provide a basis for values in any case.

The specialist category is specified in Aliens Act 77.1 §:
1) in expert duties in the middle or top management of a company or in expert duties that require special expertise;
This permit category does not require a decision from TE office. From Aliens Act 3.1 §:
6 a) muulla oleskeluluvalla ansiotyötä varten ulkomaalaiselle ansiotyötä varten myönnettävää oleskelulupaa, joka myönnetään ilman edeltävää työ- ja elinkeinotoimiston osapäätöstä; (30.12.2013/1218)
In the government proposal for the Aliens Act we don't really find more definition:
Yrityksen yli tai keskijohdon tai erityisosaamista vaativissa asiantuntijatehtävissä toimivien osalta työnteko-oikeus ilman työntekijän oleskelulupaan liittyvää työmarkkinaharkintaa olisi yhdenmukainen Suomen allekirjoittaman palvelukauppasopimuksen (GATS) edellytysten kanssa. Lisäksi näiden ja muiden edellä mainittujen ryhmien osalta on usein kyse työntekijän henkilöön liittyvästä erikoisosaamisesta, joten työmarkkinoilta saatavan työvoiman arviointia ei ole pidettävä tämän vuoksi tarkoituksenmukaisena.
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Halli ... 8+2003.pdf

Since legislation does not provide criteria for specialists, it is left to Migri and courts to decide. Since the Aliens Act is silent on requirements for the employer and remembering the constitution, I argue that no restrictions can be placed on where it is located.

http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland/ ... specialist

I have personally dealt with software engineer permits so it's safe to say they qualify as specialists.


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Work for NASA but living in Finland?

Post by Beep_Boop » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:08 pm

Constitution-wise, I guess I stand corrected.
Having that said, I'd still like to see this first RP application argued in an appeal after the highly likely rejection from Migri. That would definitely be a landmark case that I'd like to follow.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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