A cautionary tale - part 2

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biscayne
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:43 pm

A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by biscayne » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:22 pm

I posted on this, oh probably 2 years ago now, and I wanted to just "wrap up" for anyone who is interested, or for anyone who is thinking of moving to Finland. The last time, it somehow turned into a sort of argument about foreigners learning/not learning Finnish. Again, this is not a whine for sympathy, just some information which might make people planning a move to Finland because they have fallen in love think carefully or at least make a Plan B.

Firstly, even though it seemed fairly obvious from the beginning that my Finnish partner suddenly got cold feet when I actually arrived, it has taken nearly 2 years to get the thing sorted out. One reason is that I had bought his previous partner out of her share of the house. Therefore, if things go wrong, be aware that it can take a long time to organize things, which is time out of your life, a huge gap in your CV/employment record and major depletion of your savings.

A major issue was that the guy just would not engage so I really was left wondering "what does he really want"? It is amazing how long things can drag on for, and amazing how long you can hold on assuming things will get better.

When I agreed to buy his previous partner out of her share of the house, I had a large down-payment and guaranteed rental income from another country. The banks can only count 40% of the rental income in terms of giving a mortgage which is good, as there are taxes and other costs involved when you own a rental property.

Although I could easily pay the mortgage on 50% of the house, the bank would only agree to a joint 50% mortgage due to me being a foreigner basically. So, he retained his original 50% share, and went on a joint mortgage with me for the additional 50%, but I agreed to pay the entire amount which worked out at 950e per month (my 1/4 share would otherwise have worked out at 475e). Now, when he has decided to buy me out, I won't get back the 950 a month (minus interest) which I have been paying for 2.5 years, he legally does not have to do that, and actually legally does not have to return all of the 50k I put down, but only 25k, because the mortgage is joint. I thought he'd do it out of "decency" as it was me who put down 50K and paid 950e a month, and there is no way I ate 475e worth of food. Actually, I ended up buying most of my own food. Heat and light he'd have been paying anyhow. It was agreed that he would cover those types of costs until I started work, the main thing was that I pay the mortgage. I bought approx. 10k worth of goods for the house, so again, I assumed he would be "decent", that I'd get back what I put in minus the interest and I would leave all the stuff I bought.

Essentially, I have lost a huge amount of money. I urge people to be careful what they are agreeing to. If things go wrong, other parties may or may not be decent, and if you have signed contracts etc., the law is not on your side. If the tables were turned and someone had moved to be with me, given up work etc., and it just had not worked out, I would give back what they had put in just out of common decency.

I will just have to swallow all of this, he has the legal right to do this so there is no point ruminating about it. I have owned several properties and I knew this contract was not a great idea, but the bank would not do it any other way, and he agreed to it only if the 950e came out of my account and that was in the contract. The idea then was that he would pay me 475 per month to fulfill his legal responsibility to service his half of the joint mortgage, but that I would transfer that back to him for "costs". He only did this a few times however. Now, I could potentially get the tax authorities involved and claim he did not fulfill his responsibility to the mortgage, but really there is no point.

What is important to understand here is that let's say I had 100k savings, put 50k down, and paid off 2.5 years at 950e per month = 78,500k. But I will get back half of that due to what I signed. Now, if I had no property elsewhere, I would have a lot less safety net until I got settled again back home.

So, when moving to Finland:

have plenty of money
have a plan b and place to go back to
be careful about contracts and agreements

a FF member reached out and was really kind, very grateful for that.

Look, things go wrong I know. But this was a really long story that went on for years and when the guy finally got me here, he was no longer so keen. In the meantime I had waited years on and off, lost my chance to have more children even. And in the time I was here, he slept with his ex partner, disappeared for days on end including leaving me with his kids over weekends while he was nowhere to be found! And would never answer any questions! So, yeah, I am a bit pissed off, but, the main issue is people need to be very careful when moving for love. Always have a plan B.

A cautionary tale - part 2

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Upphew
Posts: 9910
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by Upphew » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:14 am

biscayne wrote:be careful about contracts and agreements
And read them ffs! "But he said..." won't mean a thing if you signed paper that says otherwise.
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betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:46 pm

biscayne wrote: Although I could easily pay the mortgage on 50% of the house, the bank would only agree to a joint 50% mortgage due to me being a foreigner basically. So, he retained his original 50% share, and went on a joint mortgage with me for the additional 50%, but I agreed to pay the entire amount which worked out at 950e per month (my 1/4 share would otherwise have worked out at 475e). Now, when he has decided to buy me out, I won't get back the 950 a month (minus interest) which I have been paying for 2.5 years, he legally does not have to do that, and actually legally does not have to return all of the 50k I put down, but only 25k, because the mortgage is joint.
You say legally. Based on the opinion of whom? Having a joint mortgage does not automatically mean anything for the ownership percentages or how the payment of the mortgage is shared between the debtors. The only result from doing a joint mortgage is the bank being able to collect the whole sum directly from either party. To me it seems you are being scammed and should consult an expert. If the only reason your spouse was on the mortgage was to guarantee it, then you are entitled for him to pay you 50% of the value of the house. From this payment the mortgage would be paid off and the rest would be yours.


Tiwaz
Posts: 2592
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:21 am

Re: A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by Tiwaz » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:00 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
biscayne wrote: Although I could easily pay the mortgage on 50% of the house, the bank would only agree to a joint 50% mortgage due to me being a foreigner basically. So, he retained his original 50% share, and went on a joint mortgage with me for the additional 50%, but I agreed to pay the entire amount which worked out at 950e per month (my 1/4 share would otherwise have worked out at 475e). Now, when he has decided to buy me out, I won't get back the 950 a month (minus interest) which I have been paying for 2.5 years, he legally does not have to do that, and actually legally does not have to return all of the 50k I put down, but only 25k, because the mortgage is joint.
You say legally. Based on the opinion of whom? Having a joint mortgage does not automatically mean anything for the ownership percentages or how the payment of the mortgage is shared between the debtors. The only result from doing a joint mortgage is the bank being able to collect the whole sum directly from either party. To me it seems you are being scammed and should consult an expert. If the only reason your spouse was on the mortgage was to guarantee it, then you are entitled for him to pay you 50% of the value of the house. From this payment the mortgage would be paid off and the rest would be yours.
Read the post. She owns 25%. Meaning they took another, separate from original one, mortgage 50/50 which totals with spouse having 3/4 ownership and Biscayne 1/4.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:19 pm

Tiwaz wrote:Read the post. She owns 25%. Meaning they took another, separate from original one, mortgage 50/50 which totals with spouse having 3/4 ownership and Biscayne 1/4.
What the state thinks she owns should probably be checked through the online service here:

https://www.kiinteistoasiat.fi

There's a non zero chance that there are surprises.

The fact that you call it a 50/50 means you missed my point. Let me give you an example:

1. I sign a sales contract with my spouse saying I buy 25% and my spouse 75%
2. We sign a joint mortgage to finance the buy
3. I agree to pay 100% of the mortgage payments.

What is my ownership percentage right after closing the deal?

As I tried to communicate the payment split for a joint mortgage can be anything between 0 and 100.

It was my understanding that the goal was for biscayne to own 50%. Whether this is the case remains to be seen.


israelrt
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:44 am

Re: A cautionary tale - part 2

Post by israelrt » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:47 am

betelgeuse wrote:
As I tried to communicate the payment split for a joint mortgage can be anything between 0 and 100.

It was my understanding that the goal was for biscayne to own 50%. Whether this is the case remains to be seen.
Good advice.
The original poster should talk to a lawyer, if he/she has not already done so.


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