New and Confused

[Rosamunda]

Me too... Been here since 2001. Can barely hold a conversation. And BTW Finnish is not my first foreign language... I am a qualified translator (French).

Studying in English makes it almost impossible to learn Finnish. Most foreign students don't speak any Finnish so the lessons start at absolute zero and don't progress very quickly. According to my sons ( one in HAMK and one in Tampere) the Finnish students don't mix much with the foreigners but that's engineering - Business might be different.

How will you take the entrance exam? As far as I know they don't run sessions in the USA?

Reading your posts it seems to me you have a huge amount of personal wealth ( and/or rich friends) in which case you have little to lose. However, even if you do graduate in 3,5 years you will still be on a student visa and you won't have much time to find a job before it runs out. Given the makeup of the new government it is not impossible that it will become even harder to stay in the country after graduating and, I also think there is a fairly high chance that non- EU students will be paying fees by the time you get round to applying.

[lpage160]

Meh,
All the negativity is not going to change my mind.

Also, no I don't have a load of wealth, just a very nice family member who is willing to help me do something I've always wanted to do.

Keep being negative it doesn't bother me. Even if I don't understand Finnish that well, at least I will have some knowledge of it and even that is a plus. Also as far as conversing.. that's what my Finnish friend is for
Maybe I don't get a job over there after 4 years, maybe I do... that is irrelevant as it's 4 years away and I don't care who you are, no one knows the future. As far as tuition and stuff, well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.. I'm not going to worry about stuff that is not in effect yet and even then I'll just have to reevaluate finances and see if it will still work.

As I said, I'm not worried about finding a job right now so if everyone can just drop that subject that would be great. I'm a freelancer and I will just continue to be a freelancer. I do all of my work online with meetings via Skype so a move to a different country is not really going to affect that.

Again just to make sure this issue is dropped: I am not looking for a job... but thank you everyone for your concern and your advice.

[007]

I must have mentioned Finns too, not just foreigners when it comes to permanent job. my bad. but yes... if you are optimistic, work hard, and stay positive, sky is the only limit. ah.. sounding like 'merican

Everyone keeps saying that my optimism is so "American"... however it's my Finnish friend who has been the one telling me this stuff.... so I guess optimism is a Finnish thing too.

I do not want to bad-mouth Finland. I have this understanding that enterpreneurship is highly looked upon in the US.........well a 'land of opportunity' for a reason (or used to be )

Anyway, if u don't have high ambitions in life, I think Finland is still one of the best places to live in.

I havent read all the posts thoroughly ......and i didnt mean to discourage u from coming here....i saw Alden's post....a part of which caught my eyes, so i commented...

[lpage160]

It did used to be... But now big business edges out the little guys and a new small business is lucky to make it 3-5 years if it ever gets past the initial year. It's sad.

Honestly its the entitlement factor that's killing a lot of things here. People think their "owed" this or that. Basically a country where the majority think their better than you and if they mess up its always someone else's fault.

It's not that I have low ambitions it's just that I'm realistic and I'm not used to having money to burn anyways. If it is indeed hard to get a high profile job there in 4 years then it just makes sense that I would settle for something that takes care of the necessities until I happen to land something better. Again, that's all hypothetical as I'm not going to be looking for four years anyways.

I didn't think you were bad-mouthing anyone
I just don't understand how people seem to think Americans are all happy balls of sunshine that work hard and have things handed to them. It's not like that at all I promise you.

[Flossy1978]

You'll have to look into how the tax system will work for you if you are going to do work over the net while in Finland.

You will also have to look into how much you can work, etc, if you are a student. You can't work fulltime. I think it's 20 hours a week. You'll have to look at the immigration website to find out.

It's only a new Government in Finland. They've got years to make many changes which can and most likely will affect you living in Finland. They aren't too happy with foreigners, the new Government. Expect a lot of negative changes.

Finns aren't optimists, they can be rather negative, especially during the long long long dark winters. And they have high rate of suicide, especially amongst men. And a large problem with alcohol and mental illness. So no, it's not really an upbeat positive place full of optimism. There are Finns who break out of the depressing mould that is Finland. Usually those who have spent a lot of time abroad are more outgoing and friendly.


The friend you are conversing with cannot tell you how life really is. He/she isn't a foreigner with no Finnish skills and new to the country

Look up Finnish music, especially older stuff...... All that mournful negative love or drinking stuff

I lived fourteen years in Finland. I was able to write formal Finnish, but mostly only the Finnish I learned to be able to do my job. I had to write reports everyday, so I learned that type of Finnish well. I couldn't learn spoken/slang. It was just so different. I could talk basic conversations. Ask at the store, talk to my Inlaws etc. I was very far from fluent. And Government papers were the worst to understand. I think if I'd taken proper courses I don't think I'd have learned more. I had almost only Finnish friends. Very few foreign friends. My job had only one other foreigner when I started there, out of 1000's of employees. There was no English used, unless it were people who wanted to practice their English with me So I was fortunate enough to be around a lot of Finnish.

Most foreigners tend to hang around other foreigners. It's difficult to break into the Finnish world of friendship as an adult. Near impossible.

Tampere isn't a very big city. You come from a country of 320 million or so. Finland has 5 million and dwindling. I think Tampere doesn't even have 200,000 people. Compared to American cities, that's small. I lived in a municipality of just 40,000 people. Only Helsinki is a decent sized place. All other cities are small.

You are lucky you'll have someone funding you while in Finland. Your provider will have to be wealthy in order to fund you and your child's life. It's incredibly expensive!

[rinso]

Meh,
All the negativity is not going to change my mind.

It's not negative, it's realistic.
People do try to help by giving you a realistic view. You can accept their vision and prepare for a plan B (or C ) or continue with your own expectations and see if you're lucky.

[betelgeuse]

You'll have to look into how the tax system will work for you if you are going to do work over the net while in Finland.

Business registration is needed to invoice. Most likely this would mean becoming a sole trader. I would say the best way to get started is to use an invoicing service like Ukko which take care of the bureaucracy for a fee:

http://www.ukko.fi/en/service/

It's only a new Government in Finland. They've got years to make many changes which can and most likely will affect you living in Finland. They aren't too happy with foreigners, the new Government. Expect a lot of negative changes.

Perussuomalaiset is only one party out of three. Besides tuition fees I don't expect anything radical for migration based on studies or work. Even for the tuitions there will be furious opposition from student unions.

[zirly]

God, so much negativity.. I learnt to speak fluent Finnish in four years, yes it was intensive daily study and a lot of practicing, but certainly not impossible. I also got a well paid job in my field of study, again not impossible. Besides there are hundreds of foreigners having technical jobs without any Finnish. Sometimes I have a feeling that this forum works just to discourage foreigners from coming to Finland.

[Rosamunda]

God, so much negativity.. I learnt to speak fluent Finnish in four years, yes it was intensive daily study and a lot of practicing, but certainly not impossible. I also got a well paid job in my field of study, again not impossible. Besides there are hundreds of foreigners having technical jobs without any Finnish. Sometimes I have a feeling that this forum works just to discourage foreigners from coming to Finland.

So why is it that all these people never want to share their experiences or give helpful, useful advice to people coming here? It would be interesting to know how you learned Finnish and what your field is and where you are working. Did you come here as a student? What is your mother tongue? Do you know many native English speakers who have learnt Finnish as quickly as you?

Most of the people I know who have jobs "in their field" are academics or teachers (self included) or maybe they are in IT (lots of jobs and no Finnish necessary).

Personally I don't discourage people from coming here, in fact I have even found jobs for a few! But it's one thing moving here single and qualified from an EU country and something else coming here from the USA with a child, because someone met online said its the most beautiful place on Earth, while relying on family for money.

I've been here almost 15 years and I've seen more Americans pack up and move back home than almost any other group. The cultural divide is huge, the economic divide is huge. That's why we advise people to be cautious and to really think things through and do the maths. There have been some truly desperate, heart wrenching stories on here of people who have really got themselves into awful situations that could have been avoided.

[lpage160]

Personally I don't discourage people from coming here, in fact I have even found jobs for a few! But it's one thing moving here single and qualified from an EU country and something else coming here from the USA with a child, because someone met online said its the most beautiful place on Earth, while relying on family for money.

Um when did I ever say I met someone online? I didn't, they were an exchange student way back in high school that I have kept in contact with for years.
You should not assume things when you know absolutely nothing about a person.

Also if you read the entirety of things you would know that my daughter is not coming until a year after I get there. A YEAR or so... Not right away, that would be crazy!

I'm not dismissing what people are saying, I am simply saying I will not be discouraged. I am already preparing for the worst possible outcome because that's what I do.

Again, AMERICANS ARE NOT ALL SUNSHINES AND RAINBOWS. I seriously don't know where people get that. Americans do not have a high work ethic and most of them refuse to actually work for anything. I don't care about the books you read that say otherwise, there are a ton of books like that and no one here reads them.

I'm coming over regardless of what people say and I am coming over as prepared as I can possibly be. So I have my plan A,B,C and D they all allow me to stay there because I cover every possible base that I can.


Also, I can tell what is realistic information and what is just mean negativity. Someone saying "YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A 1% chance at a job!!" Is just mean. However saying,"It is incredibly hard to find a job. Here are the statistics. Getting an early start at Finnish night help a bit but it's not a guarantee. Here are some other things that may or may not help" that is helpful.

And too many people on here are just being mean and negative without possibly offering any help whatso ever.

[lpage160]

YES: Please tell me how hard Finnish is to learn
YES: Please tell me how jobs are slim pickings.
YES: Tell me how much things cost.
YES: Tell me about which colleges to avoid.
YES: Tell me about housing queues.

BUT ALSO: Tell me how to help with those things.
Tell me ways that help to learn Finnish.
Tell me about tips and tricks that might help my eventual job search in 4 years.
Tell me ways to live frugally there that may help reduce the cost of living.
Tell me which universities might be the best ones.
Tell me about what I can do to better prepare myself for the housing queues.

And tell me all of that in a helpful way, not with sarcasm and rude assuming comments.


It's called constructive criticism.

[Rosamunda]

Personally I have better things to do that google on your behalf knowing full well that any suggestions I might make will be immediately trashed. I think your best approach would be to ask your exchange student friend to answer all these questions since she is obviously pretty good when it comes to giving positive advice. Or use the search engine (all your questions have been answered before on here).

Tell me ways that help to learn Finnish.

The full-time programmes for immigrants and refuges seem to work best. Intensive courses are definitely more effective (for learning any language) and - in my opinion - to make real progress you need to practise reading, listening, speaking and writing.

Tell me about tips and tricks that might help my eventual job search in 4 years.

Do a degree in nursing and learn Finnish. Do a degree in construction engineering then move to the UK. Network through your friends. The bigger your (local) network, the more likely you are to hear about job openings. Do your internships in Finland and make a solid impression, they might offer you a permanent job.

Tell me ways to live frugally there that may help reduce the cost of living.

Eat lunch at the student cafeteria and make soup for the evening, shop in Lidl. Don't try to eat the same stuff as back home. Use public transport or get a bike. Don't party too much. Be prepared to wear the same clothes for four years or shop in flea markets. Don't get sick. Look after your teeth. Re-think your plans to fly back to the US every few months. Get a part-time job. Get through your studies as fast as you can (not compatible with a part-time job though).

Tell me which universities might be the best ones.

It depends what you want to study but generally speaking Aalto is probably one of the best (definitely top notch for things like art and design) also Helsinki, hanken (for business), Tampere, Turku/Abo, Jyvaskyla for an academic Masters cursus. The UAS don't have the same status, but sometimes they lead into working life better than the Unis eg: nursing, engineering, IT. The best ones are also the hardest to get into (in most cases it is based 100% on the entrance exam). If you choose to do a Bachelors at a UAS, you will be one of the older students in the class and you might find that irritating. Nearly ALL the coursework is done in groups nowadays. I've witnessed quite a few students struggling with that, especially the older ones.

Tell me about what I can do to better prepare myself for the housing queues.

Nothing really. Every flat I visited with my son had 20+ people in the queue. We found one eventually because we (parents) guarantee the rent and we are both employed with good salaries and a solid credit history. Oh, and my husband clinched the deal in Swedish because the landlord just happened to be from the west coast. Networking works well (use your friend) and then just stamina and patience but your best bet would be sharing with someone who is already here and prepared to sub-let. Few students can afford to rent their own place unless they get student housing. When my son went on the list for a student flat in Tampere he was circa 129 in the queue. One of my other kids is in HAMK, he got a flat easily and it's cheap. But that's in Riihimäki. I don't think you would survive very long in Riihimäki (I know I wouldn't).

If you have someone in the US who is funding this project then you should be OK. But I don't know how Vero (Finnish tax office) deals with that (technically it is a gift and therefore taxable income). Also any money coming in from the US will be subject to fluctuations in the exchange rates. No one knows what the dollar/euro rate will be in four years time. You need to factor that into your calculations. Start up a toiminimi doing online graphic design and get as much work from the US as you can. The work will be VAT exempt so the bookkeeping is easy and if you get enough work while you are studying, it might help when applying for permanent residency as a self-employed entrepreneur (though don't rely on it).

One other thing, Finnish school holidays don't sync with the USA. I don't know how old your daughter is but your vacations probably won't be exactly the same as hers.

[lpage160]

Personally I have better things to do that google on your behalf knowing full well that any suggestions I might make will be immediately trashed. I think your best approach would be to ask your exchange student friend to answer all these questions since she is obviously pretty good when it comes to giving positive advice. Or use the search engine (all your questions have been answered before on here).

Oh I wouldn't dream of making people do research for me! I was just wanting advice from people who currently live there who would know more than a blogger who visited once or a business site that is bias and vague.
I did do searches on this forum though and either the information wasn't specific to my question, was vague, or it didn't exist. So not everything has been answered on here.

She actually does not currently live in Finland and hasn't for about 3 years. She got married and moved to some London Suburb. She's the one who told me about this website actually.

I can find things about visas and what not online but I can't find the best places to get groceries, get legitimate opinions on colleges, or know which towns would be best for me.

I want to seriously thank you for your input though. All of your advice really does make a huge difference and I will be researching a lot more on those tonight.

As well as righting it down in my moving binder which is currently filled with flowcharts, lists, financial worksheets, contact information, …etc.
Again thank you

[Rosamunda]

Aw, that sucks. Your friend who told you to come and live in Finland because it's such a beautiful country with great job prospects actually moved to London three years ago. <--- sarcasm

You do realise that that means everything she told you dates back to a time when Finland was still trading with Russia and Russian tourists were spending all their roubles in Finnish department stores and supermarkets? Things have changed A LOT in the past three years. Three years ago Finland was a model of excellence in all things economic. AAA+++++ ratings and money in the bank. Austerity? What austerity?

Those were the days...

So, you don't actually know anyone who lives here?

I am (honestly) intrigued to know what exactly it is about Finland which attracts you so much. We've had kids wanting to move here because they have a serious crush on some rock/goth/heavy metal band, mums who want to relocate here because they think Finland has the best education system in the world, and cranky people who want to live off the grid in the woods and grow their own potatoes. But, for the life of me, I don't see what your motivation is. There are tons of "peaceful" places in the world (no sirens, low criminality) where people speak English or languages that are pretty easy to learn, with warmer climates, better food and a lower cost of living.

Or maybe you are just another WUM/troll. We get lots of those too. But it's been a while since we had one with so much determination.

[Flossy1978]

You do realise you keep talking about WHEN you will go to Finland, but you've not even been accepted into a school yet.

Do you realise how difficult it is to get into a school there? You need to at least sit an exam. There will be many people applying some small amount of spaces. The competition is tough!

Then you need to get Immigration approval.

I don't know how it works in America, but how do you know for sure the Father of your child will allow you to take her? You won't see her for a year. You could be prevented from taking her. How difficult do you think this is going to be on your child? Being ditched for a year???

So these things all sound negative, but they are reality. I think you need to get accepted into a school first, then get your ducks in a row