Why RP was refused?

[RevealingtheTruth]

Have your bank send a certified original copy to the migri . I hope it all work out for you, because I know you have worked hard to receive acceptance in University. Good Luck keep us posted

[betelgeuse]

They are, they just can't be a relative or friend iirc.

There's no such rule. The rule is that means of support much be proven with the applicants own assets or future income. Anyone who sponsors must donate the money to the applicant. It can be a relative or a friend as long as Migri believes the donation to be genuine. In high risk countries this basically means the donation must be done well in advance in order to reduce the risk of looking like a case where the money is immediately moved back after a positive decision.

IMHO if Migri considers this scam to be common, the Finnish parliament should legislate having to move the money to a EEA bank within the first couple months in the country and then submitting the bank statement through the e-service. This should deter the scam enough which would help with false positives.

[007]

IMHO if Migri considers this scam to be common, the Finnish parliament should legislate having to move the money to a EEA bank within the first couple months in the country and then submitting the bank statement through the e-service. This should deter the scam enough which would help with false positives.

Outflows of hard currencies like dollars and euros from developing countries are extremely regulated. A resident of a developing country cannot simply transfer dollars/euros out of a country without strong reasons. Though your idea is good for its purpose, there's practical difficulties. However, migri should be tough just like other countries e.g. USA, UK etc in this regard. In those countries, if I remember correctly, an applicant should provide a bank statement of 6 previous months, which should disclose regular cash flows, not just sudden increase in balance. And, also, there should be a strong reason why a sponsor is sponsoring etc.

Btw, in old days before 2010, students used to put money in their friends' accounts for the renewals of residence permits. Nowadays, I've heard police are very strict on that.

[leisl]

Both the FAQ and the Means of Support are unclear, at least in English. The Means of Support is ambiguous ("Sponsorship agreements provided by relatives, friends or employers are not acceptable, as the funds must have already been transferred to your bank account." ie, they will presumably be investigating whether it's your money and gifts may not be precluded.) On the FAQ page ("Sponsorship agreements with relatives, acquaintances or employers are not acceptable") it also follows another statement that receiving money once a month is not accepted - indicating that the final sentence is a different, additional denial. However I'm not in the mood to trawl the legislation (I gather you have betelgeuse) so I'll take your word for it and assume that the information given on the site is intentionally obtuse in order to prevent people using gifted money in order to apply.

So many people on these boards have had applications rejected despite their assurances that the money was a gift and did not need to be returned. I believe them, because parents do things like that for their children to get an education. But it seems that Migri is treating it as a sponsorship/loan if you know the person. The length of time in a bank account is not an indication of whether it was a gift - so imo is an unfair means of determining whether it needs to be returned - I'd like to know how they can reasonably defend that in law.

[007]

Both the FAQ and the Means of Support are unclear, at least in English. The Means of Support is ambiguous ("Sponsorship agreements provided by relatives, friends or employers are not acceptable, as the funds must have already been transferred to your bank account." ie, they will presumably be investigating whether it's your money and gifts may not be precluded.) On the FAQ page ("Sponsorship agreements with relatives, acquaintances or employers are not acceptable") it also follows another statement that receiving money once a month is not accepted - indicating that the final sentence is a different, additional denial. However I'm not in the mood to trawl the legislation (I gather you have) so I'll take your word for it and assume that the information given there is intentionally obtuse in order to prevent people using gifted money in order to apply.

So many people on these boards have had applications rejected despite their assurances that the money was a gift and did not need to be returned. I believe them, because parents do things like that for their children to get an education. But it seems that Migri is treating it as a sponsorship/loan if you know the person.

I think putting money in someone's account lump sum and entering into an agreement to put money monthly are slightly different things. Anyway, I am sure that there's room to play for police. They decide case by case. But, what I am sure regarding permit renewal is that... police become really suspicious if money from Finland is deposited on the applicant's account.

[betelgeuse]

Outflows of hard currencies like dollars and euros from developing countries are extremely regulated. A resident of a developing country cannot simply transfer dollars/euros out of a country without strong reasons. Though your idea is good for its purpose, there's practical difficulties.

If transferring the money out of the country is not possible, the application should be denied because means of support are not available. Leaving the money to the country of origin exposes the student to things like exchange rate risk.

The length of time in a bank account is not an indication of whether it was a gift - so imo is an unfair means of determining whether it needs to be returned - I'd like to know how they can reasonably defend that in law.

I disagree. The longer it stays in the account, the less likely it is that the money is actually needed for something else.

There's nothing about these details in the Aliens Act. This is what the Aliens Act has to say about it: "An alien’s means of support are considered secure at the time when the alien’s first residence permit is issued if the alien’s residence is financed through gainful employment, pursuit of a trade, pensions, property or income from other sources considered normal so that the alien cannot be expected to become dependent on social assistance referred to in the Act on Social Assistance (1412/1997) or on other similar benefit to secure his or her means of support. Social security benefits compensating for expenses are not regarded as such a benefit."

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 040301.pdf

This is further refined by court cases and the government background documents for the Aliens Act. The burden of proof is on the applicant: "The applicant shall submit to the authorities a statement on how his or her means of support will be secured in Finland."

But it seems that Migri is treating it as a sponsorship/loan if you know the person.(

Structuring things as a loan would be possible. For example, I assume Migri allows student loans from other countries to count as means of support as long as payments start after the residence period in question.

[007]

Outflows of hard currencies like dollars and euros from developing countries are extremely regulated. A resident of a developing country cannot simply transfer dollars/euros out of a country without strong reasons. Though your idea is good for its purpose, there's practical difficulties.

If transferring the money out of the country is not possible, the application should be denied because means of support are not available. Leaving the money to the country of origin exposes the student to things like exchange rate risk.

Students can convert their local currencies into hard currencies in developing countries only after they've received the student permits. Student permit is a strong reason for that. However, here I am just trying to point out that a sponsor cannot simply transfer euros. I am sure there's lots of bureaucracies involved due to the fear of money laundering and losing foreign reserves etc.

[betelgeuse]

Students can convert their local currencies into hard currencies in developing countries only after they've received the student permits. Student permit is a strong reason for that. However, here I am just trying to point out that a sponsor cannot simply transfer euros. I am sure there's lots of bureaucracies involved due to the fear of money laundering and losing foreign reserves etc.

Read my proposal again. In my scheme the euro conversion was after receiving the student permit. It did not involved any suggestion for sponsors to transfer euros.

[007]

Students can convert their local currencies into hard currencies in developing countries only after they've received the student permits. Student permit is a strong reason for that. However, here I am just trying to point out that a sponsor cannot simply transfer euros. I am sure there's lots of bureaucracies involved due to the fear of money laundering and losing foreign reserves etc.

Read my proposal again. In my scheme the euro conversion was after receiving the student permit. It did not involved any suggestion for sponsors to transfer euros.

Well.. perhaps I missed your point as I read 'moving money to EEA banks'. Students of course bring 6000 plus euros with them and it's not a problem for them because they can just take loans and then simply send their money back after landing here either right away or after a few months. So, only way would be to require students to show bank balance of a whole year at the time of permit renewal.

[betelgeuse]

So, only way would be to require students to show bank balance of a whole year at the time of permit renewal.

This is already the law and practice.

[rinso]

Students of course bring 6000 plus euros with them and it's not a problem for them because they can just take loans and then simply send their money back after landing here either right away or after a few months.

Leaving them without money. (And they won't get social support.) Not the optimal conditions for a successful study.

[rhiday]

Thanks a lot to everyone... I have got my RP

[Beep_Boop]

That sounds great! Thanks for the update

[drpipespromzy]

Hey Rhiday... Have you received your decision as until now?and if yes let's us know. And is the Bank statement your personal account or that of your sponsor? I have something to tell you.

[drpipespromzy]

I missed the previous messages, thanks