What makes it difficult to learn Finnish language?

[ywetka]

The only thing that works according to my experience is to actually clear your mind and stop wondering about the differences between mother tongue and language you're learning.
Btw, everytime I'm here actually all I do is small talk . It's definitely because of my dog (1,7kg yorkshire terrier) - when I ride the tram, metro or just sit on the bench, ALWAYS someone comes and starts asking about the breed and then usually we end up talking about anything, even world politics (and I'm not talking about speaking with drunks Though it happened, I won't lie ) . And I always try to use as much Finnish as I can - no problem with that.

[Tiwaz]

Another thing to add is that finns are not used to foreigners speaking (less than perfect) finnish, so are unable to make allowances for different pronunciation and simple mistakes. This makes it discouraging when people don't understand you.
My mother in law didn't understand something I said in finnish since I pronounced "finnair" in a more english way than the way a finn would say it (they would say something like finn-ire). It's at this point I thought why bother learning if people are going to demand so much precision with their difficult language.
Meanwhile I (as a brit) work daily with people from India, Brazil, Taiwan, all over, with all of them trying to speak english and me trying to understand their wildly different accents, grammar and pronunciation of english.

No, what makes things difficult are tools like you who do not grasp that pronounciation is essential in every language.

You are whining that your MIL, who most likely is far from fluent in English did not understand it because it is not understandable. It is YOUR duty to learn pronounce words in Finnish.

Your example is same as someone pronouncing ship wrongly and then complaining how everyone should automatically know that you are not speaking of floating excrement. Fault in speaker, not in listener.

Tools like you would be totally lost in language where intonation would change meaning of word I think, trying desperately to pretend that you can speak language without regard to it's pronounciation rules and expect to be understood.
If your poor pronounciation makes word impossible to understand for listener, fault is yours.

[tuulen]

And the other is a very highly abbreviated form, where a single Finnish word could be modified as to convey no less than a sentence's worth of information, and possibly an entire paragraph's worth of information.

any examples?

Here we are, you and I, speaking English, but Finnish is an entirely different language. Then consider the origins of the Finnish language, as a Uralic language. The Uralic languages originate in the far north, where winters are very long and very cold, as where a person breathes in cold air but then breathes out somewhat warmer air, meaning that a person in the far north loses body heat every time they exhale, which they can not afford to do. And so the Finnish language evolved to minimize the amount of body heat lost during conversation.

Yes, Finnish does have grammatically correct and proper forms, but also has very abbreviated forms, too.

[AldenG]

[007]

That's deep lol

[Pursuivant]

Here we are, you and I, speaking English, but Finnish is an entirely different language. Then consider the origins of the Finnish language, as a Uralic language. The Uralic languages originate in the far north, where winters are very long and very cold, as where a person breathes in cold air but then breathes out somewhat warmer air, meaning that a person in the far north loses body heat every time they exhale, which they can not afford to do. And so the Finnish language evolved to minimize the amount of body heat lost during conversation.

Probably the economizing of the words happened already during right after the Ice Age when the Proto-Finns moved over and found it feasible to keep their mouth shut and use the energy for keeping warm. The babblemouths then froze on the lake ice when they were ice-fishing (its quite windy on a lake). The silent men then slid the ones frozen stiff with their mouths gaping under the ice. And their hearts felt warm, and nobody said nothing, because everyone was thinking the same thing, peace at last. Usually foreigners not accustomed to the economy of words were traditionally given a mouthful of sticky pine sap before they enter public places so their teeth get stuck together so that decent people could have some peace and quiet. If the babbling came a nuisance the next step to cure verbal diarrea was to dip the foreigner then into a hole in the ice, or in the summer throw them into a bog, really persistent ones the tradition says if you put them in headfirst that usually starts to take effect. These days of course sticky toffee is offered. Now if the babbling comes a nuisance... theres a lot of bogs. Then again this silence does not apply to the female of the species in domestic environments, for they have a wonderful and frightening ability of speaking inhaling and exhaling... hence the archeologists excavating can tell Proto-Finnic female jawbones for their extensive wear. This also explains the early prevalence of ice-fishing and a long hunting treks.

[tuulen]

That's deep lol

You could offer a more plausible theory?

[007]

You could offer a more plausible theory?

I am skeptical about the very existence of such abbreviated form

... the other is a very highly abbreviated form, where a single Finnish word could be modified as to convey no less than a sentence's worth of information, and possibly an entire paragraph's worth of information.

And instead of providing examples if there were any, you have your own theory on how Finnish language came to have such features ( isn't that your own? )

....consider the origins of the Finnish language, as a Uralic language. The Uralic languages originate in the far north, where winters are very long and very cold, as where a person breathes in cold air but then breathes out somewhat warmer air, meaning that a person in the far north loses body heat every time they exhale, which they can not afford to do. And so the Finnish language evolved to minimize the amount of body heat lost during conversation.

Anyway, I know there exist abbreviated forms but the kind of forms you are talking about aren't familiar to me. I can always learn new things.


/

Probably the economizing of the words happened already during right after the Ice Age when the Proto-Finns moved over and found it feasible to keep their mouth shut and use the energy for keeping warm.

[tuulen]

You could offer a more plausible theory?

I am skeptical about the very existence of such abbreviated form

OK, consider the following:

Ai?

Totta kai.

Pursuivant asks, "Oh?", and I respond, "Certainly." And that is an abbreviated Finnish conversation!

In terms of communication, English and Finnish are opposites. For instance, in English perhaps we could anticipate "correct" grammar and then "notice" any incorrect grammar. Yet the priority in Finnish is "direct" communication and "correct" grammar is then considered a waste of energy and time.

[Pursuivant]

You could offer a more plausible theory?

OK, consider the following:

Ai?

Totta kai.

Pursuivant asks, "Oh?", and I respond, "Certainly." And that is an abbreviated Finnish conversation!

Babbling foreigner, the Finnish answer is
Joo.

[tuulen]

Babbling foreigner, the Finnish answer is
Joo.

[Pursuivant]

The conversation:

- Ai?
- Joo.
- No hö.
- Joo-o.
- Joo joo.

The same in foreign language

- Well, my learned colleague Tuulen, I really appreciate your input, but let me present my sincere query whether your opinion is based on irrifutible facts?
- Oh certainly colleague Pursuivant, we have achieved this through indiscriminate double-blinding hypothesis on the planary level of guesstimation!
- I say this methodology sounds like its merits would not quite reach the standards required to for this kind of hypothesis.
- Oh by all standardisation boards it has its merits colleague Pursuivant.
- Whatever you say, colleague Tuulen.

[Kutittaa]

!!!

[007]

You could offer a more plausible theory?

I am skeptical about the very existence of such abbreviated form

OK, consider the following:

Ai?

Totta kai.

Pursuivant asks, "Oh?", and I respond, "Certainly." And that is an abbreviated Finnish conversation!

In terms of communication, English and Finnish are opposites. For instance, in English perhaps we could anticipate "correct" grammar and then "notice" any incorrect grammar. Yet the priority in Finnish is "direct" communication and "correct" grammar is then considered a waste of energy and time.

That kind of conversation can be had without use of words/sounds too (energy conservation ) ! Anyway, this oh? certainly! aren't certainly abbreviated forms of conversation. When you say abbreviated or contracted forms, it's something like "mä tuun kuuelta" for minä tulen kuudelta. This is how I understannd.

Also, directness in finnish language or perhaps in finnish pysche is well known but I think uses of correct grammar is in no way considered a waste of enery and time whereas non-contracted forms are! And perhaps ai aijaa joo jahas types of conversations can be said to take place soley to save energy and time which began already during right after the Ice Age when the Proto-Finns moved over and found it feasible to keep their mouth shut and use the energy for keeping warm. The babblemouths then froze on the lake ice when they were ice-fishing (its quite windy on a lake). The silent men then slid the ones frozen stiff with their mouths gaping under the ice. And their hearts felt warm, and nobody said nothing, because everyone was thinking the same thing, peace at last. Usually foreigners not accustomed to the economy of words were traditionally given a mouthful of sticky pine sap before they enter public places so their teeth get stuck together so that decent people could have some peace and quiet. If the babbling came a nuisance the next step to cure verbal diarrea was to dip the foreigner then into a hole in the ice, or in the summer throw them into a bog, really persistent ones the tradition says if you put them in headfirst that usually starts to take effect. These days of course sticky toffee is offered. Now if the babbling comes a nuisance... theres a lot of bogs. Then again this silence does not apply to the female of the species in domestic environments, for they have a wonderful and frightening ability of speaking inhaling and exhaling... hence the archeologists excavating can tell Proto-Finnic female jawbones for their extensive wear. This also explains the early prevalence of ice-fishing and a long hunting treks.

[AldenG]

The same in foreign language

- Well, my learned colleague Tuulen, I really appreciate your input, but let me present my sincere query whether your opinion is based on irrifutible facts?
- Oh certainly colleague Pursuivant, we have achieved this through indiscriminate double-blinding hypothesis on the planary level of guesstimation!
- I say this methodology sounds like its merits would not quite reach the standards required to for this kind of hypothesis.
- Oh by all standardisation boards it has its merits colleague Pursuivant.
- Whatever you say, colleague Tuulen.

By Jove, you're assimilating.