News about the Finnish/Russian child

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Cory
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by Cory » Fri May 22, 2009 7:53 pm

OwnARottie wrote:Don't trust them, but they still need a broad from there to park themselves in! It like going to some place and trying to park in somewhere where many have parked and could give your, erm, "vehicle" a disease - something that could get you in trouble, so why not just avoid???
Diplomats all over the world abuse their driving privileges. I remember quite a few years ago a Japanese diplomat in Ottawa hit and killed a pedestrian and he wasn't charged. The diplomat was expelled back to his native country but it brought to my attention just how much power these diplomats have.


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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

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Cory
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by Cory » Fri May 22, 2009 7:55 pm

onkko wrote:Still wonder why finns dont trust russians :)
In the case of this woman "talking" to a public official and the Russian courts decision being ignored.. Money talks! She would have had to lay down a whole wad of cash on the desk of this civil servant.
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Rip
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by Rip » Sat May 23, 2009 8:32 am

While I fully support the father and Finnish diplomat in this case, I feel Finns should not get too excited condemning Russian media either. I don't see ours has acted any better in similar cases.

Remember the case of Outi Koski, where the South Carolina Father coming to pick up his sons Alexander and Jacob back home after his Finnish ex-wife had failed to send them home after a summer holiday trip, suddenly became a kidnapper of 'Espoo boys' 'Aleksi and 'Jaakko'? Despite Finland was a signatory of the Hague convention, I took the poor guy year and a four months and two favorable supreme court decisions to get his sons back, and it was only rather late in the story that also the father got his voice heard in Finnish media (I guess by the time the reporters had realized the mother's 'peculiarities' and got worried they might get in trouble if the kids were physically hurt)


buldozr
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by buldozr » Sat May 23, 2009 9:57 pm

So the Finn's main mistake was to marry the bitch...

Still, Mr. Pietiläinen could have been more professional, even if it meant leaving the kid on the wrong side a bit longer, and escalate the matter with his superiors (tipping off some journalists at home wouldn't hurt, too). Then it would be Finland sending notes to Russia. There is little that Russian officials detest more than a big, international, stink about their misdeeds. Keeping in the Finnish kid illegally smuggled against courts' orders - that didn't even benefit any powerful interests to make a stand.


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ajdias
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by ajdias » Sat May 23, 2009 10:32 pm

buldozr,

you're not a father (or mother), are you? This is guy is not in the business of politics, nor he needed to be.
He only needs to care for his son.


buldozr
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by buldozr » Sun May 24, 2009 1:23 pm

ajdias wrote:you're not a father (or mother), are you?
I am. I don't blame the father, I feel pity that his marriage ended up like this.


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neil
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by neil » Mon May 25, 2009 10:51 am

Neil

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network_engineer
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by network_engineer » Mon May 25, 2009 11:40 am

Hi all,

To one of the earlier posts: Well, there is a bit of a stark difference in this case:

1- No official would really dare to challenge a final decision of the court. Sure, IIRC, they appealed and then re-appealed till the judgment became final. Once it was final, no official at the immigration authority would dare to [by themselves] overturn the court's decision without burning themselves. Biggest differences?
_ The immigration official "overturned" the court's decision of his own accord.
_ The police registered a case against the father, despite a clear ruling from the court that the custody was legal.
_ Stalled again a legal departure from Russia.

2- Although it was quite some time ago, so I may not be accurate, the public media (also the Finnish versions, IIRC) gave an account without the bias. *Most* of the Finns that discussed the topic when I was present were with the father and did not support the mother's illegal actions. [Most = all, I cannot recollect anybody but one saying that well, the court should decide and that was not supporting the mother, only that the court decides]
_ That is a BIG difference.

3- In Finland, justice is followed by action in due course. The children were ultimately returned to the father and did not need to be smuggled out. Appealing to a court is a legal process and not an abuse by itself.

Other differences, you ask?
_ Well, if not anything else, the mother in the older case would have gotten into trouble for using false documents IN Finland.

@buldozr: :) Do you really believe that raising the issue with them would have any effects?

I realised something the other day, I just found one comment from the mother, even more offensive than the others and I am so tempted to use a straight expletive here. What was it, you ask?
According to the mother, Anton had already forgotten his father altogether, and did not miss him at all.


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network_engineer
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by network_engineer » Mon May 25, 2009 11:53 am

Hi all,

@neil: I just read the post! Thanks!

This is why I say, these guys are a nuisance. And about one of the posts made earlier, just leave them alone. Find a partner (life, business) elsewhere.

That's another kid's life challenged!


micky-in-helsinki
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by micky-in-helsinki » Mon May 25, 2009 2:10 pm

As you expect and advise foreigners living in Finland to follow Finnish laws, whatever the laws are (and many laws are not so acceptable and reasonable for many foreigners from different back grounds) so why do you forget it when you are in some other country?

Simple as has been put here quite often by finns, respect the laws (and even culture and customs), otherwise don't come here.

So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.

Finnish diplomate behaved as a smuggler and thief, ends don't always justify the means. It's just as if a foreigner shot dead a known skin head because police was not doing enough. Will you take the side of that foreigner? I guess never. So grow up and get a life


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network_engineer
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by network_engineer » Mon May 25, 2009 6:09 pm

To the recent poster: Somehow, IMVHO, the response to the post did NOT [corrected] link correctly to the intent in the post or am I missing something?

_ Nobody here is really condoning the act of the driver (I deliberately do not use the word "diplomat").
_ As regards "judging laws": Which post in the whole topic is really judging the laws of any country?
Last edited by network_engineer on Tue May 26, 2009 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.


micky-in-helsinki
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by micky-in-helsinki » Mon May 25, 2009 11:32 pm

Get a bit of sleep. A bit paranoid, should be fine after rest.


buldozr
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by buldozr » Tue May 26, 2009 12:48 am

micky-in-helsinki wrote:So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
The problem is, there apparently was no law, in the country or out, that the kid's mother would follow. Also, an immigration official ignored the decision of a Russian court.
I still think that an officially raised inquiry -- about one Finnish citizen illegally abducted, and another detained -- would most likely result in both allowed to leave the country.


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Pursuivant
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by Pursuivant » Tue May 26, 2009 2:27 am

The thing is the Russian court also said the child was gotten the Russian citizenship illegally.
Last edited by Pursuivant on Tue May 26, 2009 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


Tiwaz
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Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child

Post by Tiwaz » Tue May 26, 2009 9:42 am

buldozr wrote:
micky-in-helsinki wrote:So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
The problem is, there apparently was no law, in the country or out, that the kid's mother would follow. Also, an immigration official ignored the decision of a Russian court.
I still think that an officially raised inquiry -- about one Finnish citizen illegally abducted, and another detained -- would most likely result in both allowed to leave the country.
I would not have held my breath waiting for that. Considering that out of numerable children kidnapped from Finland to Russia this is FIRST one to be returned.

And even this one was not returned by Russian officials.

Speaks a world about Russia.


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