News about the Finnish/Russian child
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
So the Finn's main mistake was to marry the bitch...
Still, Mr. Pietiläinen could have been more professional, even if it meant leaving the kid on the wrong side a bit longer, and escalate the matter with his superiors (tipping off some journalists at home wouldn't hurt, too). Then it would be Finland sending notes to Russia. There is little that Russian officials detest more than a big, international, stink about their misdeeds. Keeping in the Finnish kid illegally smuggled against courts' orders - that didn't even benefit any powerful interests to make a stand.
Still, Mr. Pietiläinen could have been more professional, even if it meant leaving the kid on the wrong side a bit longer, and escalate the matter with his superiors (tipping off some journalists at home wouldn't hurt, too). Then it would be Finland sending notes to Russia. There is little that Russian officials detest more than a big, international, stink about their misdeeds. Keeping in the Finnish kid illegally smuggled against courts' orders - that didn't even benefit any powerful interests to make a stand.
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
buldozr,
you're not a father (or mother), are you? This is guy is not in the business of politics, nor he needed to be.
He only needs to care for his son.
you're not a father (or mother), are you? This is guy is not in the business of politics, nor he needed to be.
He only needs to care for his son.
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
I am. I don't blame the father, I feel pity that his marriage ended up like this.ajdias wrote:you're not a father (or mother), are you?
- network_engineer
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:21 am
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
Hi all,
To one of the earlier posts: Well, there is a bit of a stark difference in this case:
1- No official would really dare to challenge a final decision of the court. Sure, IIRC, they appealed and then re-appealed till the judgment became final. Once it was final, no official at the immigration authority would dare to [by themselves] overturn the court's decision without burning themselves. Biggest differences?
_ The immigration official "overturned" the court's decision of his own accord.
_ The police registered a case against the father, despite a clear ruling from the court that the custody was legal.
_ Stalled again a legal departure from Russia.
2- Although it was quite some time ago, so I may not be accurate, the public media (also the Finnish versions, IIRC) gave an account without the bias. *Most* of the Finns that discussed the topic when I was present were with the father and did not support the mother's illegal actions. [Most = all, I cannot recollect anybody but one saying that well, the court should decide and that was not supporting the mother, only that the court decides]
_ That is a BIG difference.
3- In Finland, justice is followed by action in due course. The children were ultimately returned to the father and did not need to be smuggled out. Appealing to a court is a legal process and not an abuse by itself.
Other differences, you ask?
_ Well, if not anything else, the mother in the older case would have gotten into trouble for using false documents IN Finland.
@buldozr: Do you really believe that raising the issue with them would have any effects?
I realised something the other day, I just found one comment from the mother, even more offensive than the others and I am so tempted to use a straight expletive here. What was it, you ask?
To one of the earlier posts: Well, there is a bit of a stark difference in this case:
1- No official would really dare to challenge a final decision of the court. Sure, IIRC, they appealed and then re-appealed till the judgment became final. Once it was final, no official at the immigration authority would dare to [by themselves] overturn the court's decision without burning themselves. Biggest differences?
_ The immigration official "overturned" the court's decision of his own accord.
_ The police registered a case against the father, despite a clear ruling from the court that the custody was legal.
_ Stalled again a legal departure from Russia.
2- Although it was quite some time ago, so I may not be accurate, the public media (also the Finnish versions, IIRC) gave an account without the bias. *Most* of the Finns that discussed the topic when I was present were with the father and did not support the mother's illegal actions. [Most = all, I cannot recollect anybody but one saying that well, the court should decide and that was not supporting the mother, only that the court decides]
_ That is a BIG difference.
3- In Finland, justice is followed by action in due course. The children were ultimately returned to the father and did not need to be smuggled out. Appealing to a court is a legal process and not an abuse by itself.
Other differences, you ask?
_ Well, if not anything else, the mother in the older case would have gotten into trouble for using false documents IN Finland.
@buldozr: Do you really believe that raising the issue with them would have any effects?
I realised something the other day, I just found one comment from the mother, even more offensive than the others and I am so tempted to use a straight expletive here. What was it, you ask?
According to the mother, Anton had already forgotten his father altogether, and did not miss him at all.
- network_engineer
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:21 am
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
Hi all,
@neil: I just read the post! Thanks!
This is why I say, these guys are a nuisance. And about one of the posts made earlier, just leave them alone. Find a partner (life, business) elsewhere.
That's another kid's life challenged!
@neil: I just read the post! Thanks!
This is why I say, these guys are a nuisance. And about one of the posts made earlier, just leave them alone. Find a partner (life, business) elsewhere.
That's another kid's life challenged!
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:01 pm
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
As you expect and advise foreigners living in Finland to follow Finnish laws, whatever the laws are (and many laws are not so acceptable and reasonable for many foreigners from different back grounds) so why do you forget it when you are in some other country?
Simple as has been put here quite often by finns, respect the laws (and even culture and customs), otherwise don't come here.
So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
Finnish diplomate behaved as a smuggler and thief, ends don't always justify the means. It's just as if a foreigner shot dead a known skin head because police was not doing enough. Will you take the side of that foreigner? I guess never. So grow up and get a life
Simple as has been put here quite often by finns, respect the laws (and even culture and customs), otherwise don't come here.
So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
Finnish diplomate behaved as a smuggler and thief, ends don't always justify the means. It's just as if a foreigner shot dead a known skin head because police was not doing enough. Will you take the side of that foreigner? I guess never. So grow up and get a life
- network_engineer
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:21 am
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
To the recent poster: Somehow, IMVHO, the response to the post did NOT [corrected] link correctly to the intent in the post or am I missing something?
_ Nobody here is really condoning the act of the driver (I deliberately do not use the word "diplomat").
_ As regards "judging laws": Which post in the whole topic is really judging the laws of any country?
_ Nobody here is really condoning the act of the driver (I deliberately do not use the word "diplomat").
_ As regards "judging laws": Which post in the whole topic is really judging the laws of any country?
Last edited by network_engineer on Tue May 26, 2009 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:01 pm
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
Get a bit of sleep. A bit paranoid, should be fine after rest.
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
The problem is, there apparently was no law, in the country or out, that the kid's mother would follow. Also, an immigration official ignored the decision of a Russian court.micky-in-helsinki wrote:So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
I still think that an officially raised inquiry -- about one Finnish citizen illegally abducted, and another detained -- would most likely result in both allowed to leave the country.
- Pursuivant
- Posts: 15089
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am
- Location: Bath & Wells
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
The thing is the Russian court also said the child was gotten the Russian citizenship illegally.
Last edited by Pursuivant on Tue May 26, 2009 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."
Something wicked this way comes."
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
I would not have held my breath waiting for that. Considering that out of numerable children kidnapped from Finland to Russia this is FIRST one to be returned.buldozr wrote:The problem is, there apparently was no law, in the country or out, that the kid's mother would follow. Also, an immigration official ignored the decision of a Russian court.micky-in-helsinki wrote:So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
I still think that an officially raised inquiry -- about one Finnish citizen illegally abducted, and another detained -- would most likely result in both allowed to leave the country.
And even this one was not returned by Russian officials.
Speaks a world about Russia.
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
Difference is, in Finland the officials follow the law and decisions of court.micky-in-helsinki wrote:As you expect and advise foreigners living in Finland to follow Finnish laws, whatever the laws are (and many laws are not so acceptable and reasonable for many foreigners from different back grounds) so why do you forget it when you are in some other country?
Simple as has been put here quite often by finns, respect the laws (and even culture and customs), otherwise don't come here.
So what's the problem now? Don't make your own judgements or logics, just follow the laws of the country. If you start arguing and judging the laws with your thinking then everybody has his arguments.
Finnish diplomate behaved as a smuggler and thief, ends don't always justify the means. It's just as if a foreigner shot dead a known skin head because police was not doing enough. Will you take the side of that foreigner? I guess never. So grow up and get a life
In Russia... Not so.
As I said, this is FIRST child to have been returned in any way from Russia to Finland.
As opposed to Finland returning offspring kidnapped from USA.
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
The problem with all of these cases is that parent having de facto custody of the child (even if illegally) can hope to win by just playing time. Longer s(he) manages to hold on to the child, more likely it is that some courts will eventually decide that it is not in the child's best interest to break the status quo and the illegal situation is formally legalized, overruling any previous legal decisions by saying "this is what the child wants and what is in his best interest"buldozr wrote: The problem is, there apparently was no law, in the country or out, that the kid's mother would follow. Also, an immigration official ignored the decision of a Russian court.
I still think that an officially raised inquiry -- about one Finnish citizen illegally abducted, and another detained -- would most likely result in both allowed to leave the country.
This almost happened also in the Koski/Rogers case, where an appeals court was giving the children to their (fugitive) mother, even after the Supreme Court had ruled in favor of the father. The supreme court had to issue another ruling basically saying that were already decided this once couple months ago and we don't want to here endless rounds of arguments that the situation has essentially changed since, thank you very much, you bozos in Appeals court of East Finland.
(And in my humble opinion, had some US diplomat smuggled the kids in question out of Finland in Autumn of 2004, after all the dust had settled he should have been given a medal or at least a presidential thanks for helping two Finnish citizens back to safety and to their home with their father (in USA))
-
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:01 pm
Re: News about the Finnish/Russian child
(And in my humble opinion, had some US diplomat smuggled the kids in question out of Finland in Autumn of 2004, after all the dust had settled he should have been given a medal or at least a presidential thanks for helping two Finnish citizens back to safety and to their home with their father (in USA))[/quote]
Your humble opinion just shows your irrational, lawless and wild thinking.
Your humble opinion just shows your irrational, lawless and wild thinking.