Experiences: Parking Fines

[umit]

If the law says "You cannot park your car less than 5 meters to a pedestrian crossing" and a parking warden gives me a ticket for parking my car 4,99 meters away then for me he is an idiot a$$hole. If you are defending him for doing his job properly and criticizing me for not obeying the rules than you are either a "helpless monkey" or a "masochist robot".

Yet you would be moaning, if you bought something that needs to be 500cm long and it would be 499cm? Thus reducing yourself to idiot a$$hole?

Well, it seems that excellent Finnish education system fails to teach you good reasoning (See: Fallacy. Which one suits you the best? Straw Man???) or you are underestimating foreigners logic.

[rinso]

If the law says "You cannot park your car less than 5 meters to a pedestrian crossing" and a parking warden gives me a ticket for parking my car 4,99 meters away then for me he is an idiot a$$hole.

And when does he stops to be this £$€¤%&? At 4.98 meters, 4.50 meters, 3.99 meters?

[MTB]

(Not) hypothetical situation:

Neighbor's car parked with 2 wheels inside the adjacent parking place. What do you do?

- Call the parking smurfs. The bastard should learn how to park.
- Park your car a little further, let him some space, and expose yourself to getting a fine, because you will be also over the line.
- Park your car normally, inside the lines, forcing him to get into his car from the passenger's door.

[umit]

If the law says "You cannot park your car less than 5 meters to a pedestrian crossing" and a parking warden gives me a ticket for parking my car 4,99 meters away then for me he is an idiot a$$hole.

And when does he stops to be this £$€¤%&? At 4.98 meters, 4.50 meters, 3.99 meters?

It differs according to every individual case. 500cm safe, 499cm dangerous... Is it?

[Upphew]

Well, it seems that excellent Finnish education system fails to teach you good reasoning (See: Fallacy. Which one suits you the best? Straw Man???) or you are underestimating foreigners logic.

So sometimes 500cm is mandatory and other times optional? Who should decide when 500 is 500 and when not? What if there is difference of opinion, warden vs. you vs. salesman?

I'm not underestimating anyone's logic yet. Just probing the logic behind opinion. I know how things are done here, sometimes I know why they are done that way. Why change the way?

[MikeD]

(Not) hypothetical situation:

Neighbor's car parked with 2 wheels inside the adjacent parking place. What do you do?

- Call the parking smurfs. The bastard should learn how to park.
- Park your car a little further, let him some space, and expose yourself to getting a fine, because you will be also over the line.
- Park your car normally, inside the lines, forcing him to get into his car from the passenger's door.

Strictly speaking, parking your car in a way which prevents access to another vehicle or which prevents another vehicle from being driven away is also illegal, regardless of whether it's in your reserved spot or not. So that option would theoretically expose you to a fine as well, although it's unlikely that you'd get one.

[Tiwaz]

Then why do Finns whine when it comes to save the a$$es of those "relaxed" nations? You should be happy and proud for obeying and fulfilling EU rules... You should feel a masochist joy for working harder to pay their debts.

Becaue we expect others to take responsibility for their actions. You know, responsibility? It's that concept you are having serious issues with... Read about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility

Anyway, discussing on the fallacies doesn't help anyone. I never said not obeying the rules is good. What I have been saying is applying a rule strictly as it is written is not necessarily the best approach. If the law says "You cannot park your car less than 5 meters to a pedestrian crossing" and a parking warden gives me a ticket for parking my car 4,99 meters away then for me he is an idiot a$$hole. If you are defending him for doing his job properly and criticizing me for not obeying the rules than you are either a "helpless monkey" or a "masochist robot".

And you, by not respecting common rules are irresponsible idiot, a$$hole, criminal and generally worthless person.

Why YOU had to get your car 1cm over the line? What prevented YOU from parking 1cm further away so that you would not violate law?

[MTB]

Strictly speaking, parking your car in a way which prevents access to another vehicle or which prevents another vehicle from being driven away is also illegal, regardless of whether it's in your reserved spot or not. So that option would theoretically expose you to a fine as well, although it's unlikely that you'd get one.

true, provided that he can prove he parked there first, and not me. (that doesn't mean I would go for option 3)


Another example:

parking in a Zone 1 parking space in the center, 10 minutes before it was free. Went to the cash machine and checked, didn't have coins and decided to risk it for 10 minutes. Got a fine at 17:59 (or 18:59, don't remember it is free from 6 or 7 there). Whether I agree I should pay some compensation for not paying initially 1 euro, I cannot help to observe it is outrageous to punish this small mistake with 50 times the amount. As long as car wasn't impeding any traffic, being actually parked in a designated parking place. Probably if I was to go to court with this, would've got away. But the appeal is to same people who issued it, and they don't bother "it is the law, blah blah". Well the law is bad, in this particular case (i still keep the fine to show it to friends who cannot believe it). And don't say they cannot know if I parked there 10 ours before or 10 minutes. It is their problem to know and prove what am I guilty for, not my problem to demonstrate I am not guilty.

[MikeD]

Another example:

parking in a Zone 1 parking space in the center, 10 minutes before it was free. Went to the cash machine and checked, didn't have coins and decided to risk it for 10 minutes. Got a fine at 17:59 (or 18:59, don't remember it is free from 6 or 7 there). Whether I agree I should pay some compensation for not paying initially 1 euro, I cannot help to observe it is outrageous to punish this small mistake with 50 times the amount. As long as car wasn't impeding any traffic, being actually parked in a designated parking place. Probably if I was to go to court with this, would've got away. But the appeal is to same people who issued it, and they don't bother "it is the law, blah blah". Well the law is bad, in this particular case (i still keep the fine to show it to friends who cannot believe it). And don't say they cannot know if I parked there 10 ours before or 10 minutes. It is their problem to know and prove what am I guilty for, not my problem to demonstrate I am not guilty.

Erm, if you parked there 10 minutes before it was free and didn't pay, you are guilty. This is exactly the same thing as the above example with parkin 4.99 metres from the pedestrian crossing - it's an attempt to draw the line somewhere other than where it has already been drawn.

I understand why people think a law is bad and why they don't obey it, but what I can't understand is that they somehow expect not to be punished for breaking it.

[MTB]

No, it's about the punishment severity in accordance to gravely of the infringement committed.

Sello shooter: 400 euros total fines for being caught a couple of times having illegal amunition with him.
Friend of mine: 400 euros fine for driving 108 in a 80 zone on somewherevayla.

Erm, if you parked there 10 minutes before it was free and didn't pay, you are guilty.

If you owe me some 2 euros and you promise to give it back tomorrow, and tomorrow you don't have them (you forget to take cash again), is it ok to demand 100 euros the next day?

[filecore]

No, it's about the punishment severity in accordance to gravely of the infringement committed.

No, it's about obeying the rules that you choose to accept when you enter a rule-enforced area.

Erm, if you parked there 10 minutes before it was free and didn't pay, you are guilty.

If you owe me some 2 euros and you promise to give it back tomorrow, and tomorrow you don't have them (you forget to take cash again), is it ok to demand 100 euros the next day?

If you are standing, by choice, in a zone in which the rules quite clearly state that the fee for overdue cash loans is 100 euros per day, then yes, it is perfectly okay. Just like if you choose to park for 10 minutes in a zone in which the rules quite clearly state that the fee for parking is 2 euros per hour or part thereof, then that is your choice. Just because you'd prefer a different payment system doesn't make your behaviour correct. You chose to use that parking space, in which case you chose to abide by the rules clearly laid out for the aforementioned space. If you didn't want to accept those rules, you were free to find a different parking space elsewhere.

[Upphew]

No, it's about the punishment severity in accordance to gravely of the infringement committed.

Sello shooter: 400 euros total fines for being caught a couple of times having illegal amunition with him.
Friend of mine: 400 euros fine for driving 108 in a 80 zone on somewherevayla.

Both had good head start to killing people, so fines should, imo, be equal. As they were.

Better example, from today: 18e and 24e fines for helping to move the body after third person had murdered the victim
( http://www.kaleva.fi/uutiset/pudasjarve ... kot/878539)

If you owe me some 2 euros and you promise to give it back tomorrow, and tomorrow you don't have them (you forget to take cash again), is it ok to demand 100 euros the next day?

If you owe me some 2e and you know that you will get 100e on top of that if you don't pay tomorrow, is it ok to demand that what was agreed when you didn't pay as agreed?
Should the additional demand be lower? Maybe, but then you shouldn't have agreed to the deal. Negotiate before committing to the contract.

[MTB]

There are laws which specify how much you can ask as a penalty for overdue cash, as far as I know. Definitely not 50 times more, I think that is even a criminal offence. But, there are exceptions... and exceptions. What if I wanted to pay, and didn't have coins, and by the time I went to change and come back... I think that maximum 20 euros fine in this case, given that it is not a traffic offence, since the car is parked in a designated parking place (which happens to be a public property) (I am sure police would'n care as it is not their duty to check if parking has been paid or not), but it is a financial offence for not paying your 1 or 2 euros tax to the municipality.

Or, I can agree to double the normal price, but in this case you should have the proof for exactly how long the car was there.

[Upphew]

There are laws which specify how much you can ask as a penalty for overdue cash, as far as I know. Definitely not 50 times more, I think that is even a criminal offence.

Compound interest and handling fees... btw there are laws but they don specify how much you can ask, but there are laws that do specify when you can park for free or how much space must be left before crossing.

What if I wanted to pay, and didn't have coins, and by the time I went to change and come back... I think that maximum 20 euros fine in this case, given that it is not a traffic offence, since the car is parked in a designated parking place (which happens to be a public property) (I am sure police would'n care as it is not their duty to check if parking has been paid or not), but it is a financial offence for not paying your 1 or 2 euros tax to the municipality.

15-50e, depending where you parked ( http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2010/20100583 ). If you went with stub showing that you had paid, they would have canceled the fine. Especially if your payment would have been made in decent time, not 3 hours after the fine was issued.

[MikeD]

What if I wanted to pay, and didn't have coins, and by the time I went to change and come back...

If you don't have the change, you first go get some and then you can park. Why do you insist on making life so difficult for yourself?
(And for the record, parking without paying the fee is a traffic offence. It's in the Road traffic law.)