Experiences: Parking Fines

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Tiwaz
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Tiwaz » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:30 am

MTB wrote:Well,

I thought everybody with an iq more than 20 can find this on google: http://www.mikes.fi/Default.aspx?

I am sorry you were not able to find it.
God such stupidity...

Yeah, they test stuff. But they DO NOT RUN AROUND CHECKING CLOCKS OF WORKING AUTOMATES.
Nor do they go around giving some kind of certificates to wardens that their clocks are perfectly in synch with official time.
Which was idiocy you were demanding.

They check that signal updates automate correctly, when received, and clock does not run too fast.
Both of these points work in those machines.



Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

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MTB
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MTB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:04 pm

They check that signal updates automate correctly, when received, and clock does not run too fast.
Both of these points work in those machines.
Oh, mr parking warden, did you check ALL of those machines?

What about calibration? Many of those I used where de-calibrated, not inline with official time.

I have asked when the last calibration was for the equipment used to issue the fine at 18:59, and asked for a proof of that. Indeed, it is not my problem who does it, as long as it is done. They completely ignored my inquiry, which is, by itself, illegal.

I must say you have very strange ideas about the legal system, and the discussion with you doesn't provide any value to me. Also it seems I need to explain you 10 times one very simple thing. So, consider this the reason I will not take into consideration your opinion or answers on this thread from now on.


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filecore
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by filecore » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:24 pm

MTB wrote:Oh, mr parking warden, did you check ALL of those machines?

What about calibration? Many of those I used where de-calibrated, not inline with official time.
Did you? It seems to me like you're just reaching for any excuse - no matter how flimsy or far-fetched - to justify your sloppy parking and avoid paying the fine. Own up to it and take it like a man :roll:


MikeD
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MikeD » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:28 pm

MTB wrote:
They check that signal updates automate correctly, when received, and clock does not run too fast.
Both of these points work in those machines.
Oh, mr parking warden, did you check ALL of those machines?

What about calibration? Many of those I used where de-calibrated, not inline with official time.

I have asked when the last calibration was for the equipment used to issue the fine at 18:59, and asked for a proof of that. Indeed, it is not my problem who does it, as long as it is done. They completely ignored my inquiry, which is, by itself, illegal.

I must say you have very strange ideas about the legal system, and the discussion with you doesn't provide any value to me. Also it seems I need to explain you 10 times one very simple thing. So, consider this the reason I will not take into consideration your opinion or answers on this thread from now on.
Tell me MTB, do you have any idea about the legal system in Finland? By your own admission, you parked the car 10 minutes before it was free, but for whatever reason you seem to think that if you took it to court you'd somehow get away with it - something I quite frankly don't see happening. You broke the law (you're not even arguing that you didn't), and you received the only penalty which is possible for that particular offense (as per the law). Typically, those are the two things which you can question in court. Finnish courts do not make the laws, they enforce them. Legislation is made by the Parliament. If you have a problem with the law, take it up with a Member of Parliament or something.

(And by the way, I don't think the parking enforcement is required to provide you with any proof of calibration. The court would be a different matter, though.)


Upphew
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Upphew » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:29 pm

MTB wrote:What about calibration? Many of those I used where de-calibrated, not inline with official time.

I have asked when the last calibration was for the equipment used to issue the fine at 18:59, and asked for a proof of that. Indeed, it is not my problem who does it, as long as it is done. They completely ignored my inquiry, which is, by itself, illegal.
10 minutes is ten minutes, whatever is the starting time. If your stub showed 18:58, at 18:59 you would be fined, even if the free parking would start at 17:00. What kind of equipment they use to issue fines? Here the warden uses pen and ticket and probably wrist watch.

By the way: are you related to Pasi Viheraho? You sound like him.
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Tiwaz
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Tiwaz » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:42 pm

MTB wrote: Oh, mr parking warden, did you check ALL of those machines?
No need to, the officials have checked them.
What about calibration? Many of those I used where de-calibrated, not inline with official time.
You little idiot do not get it... Those machines do not NEED to be calibrated to official time, as parking time is determined by the CLOCK IN THE MACHINE.

And you do NOT buy right to park based on time of day, but minutes. Thus, even if parking meter is 15 minutes ahead, it is irrelevant as it is in perfect synch with your paid time.

All warden has to do is check time in the machine, remember it and mark all cars which were there before that time.
I have asked when the last calibration was for the equipment used to issue the fine at 18:59, and asked for a proof of that. Indeed, it is not my problem who does it, as long as it is done. They completely ignored my inquiry, which is, by itself, illegal.

I must say you have very strange ideas about the legal system, and the discussion with you doesn't provide any value to me. Also it seems I need to explain you 10 times one very simple thing. So, consider this the reason I will not take into consideration your opinion or answers on this thread from now on.
You are stubborn little idiot aren't you. If that meter said 18.59 when parking warden came to area, and walked to your car which you had clearly left there earlier (as you cannot be seen parking it) they know for fact that you parked illegally.

As stated, you are not denying it even yourself.

Court would laugh your case out.

You have strange ideas of court system if you consider that they would somehow excempt you from obeying laws.
Learn to park idiot and whine less when you are punished for your crimes.


MTB
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MTB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:44 pm

@MikeD Exactly. I mean, the last phrase.

I might have parked illegally for 10 minutes, I am not sure, therefore, I don't argue about that.

There are 2 ways of attacking an administrative decision: either that it is unfounded, or it has been issued by braking current laws and/or existing procedures.

But if the fine was issued by braking the law or any current procedures that are standard, then the fine is void. I was asking a proof that their instruments used are certified and maintained properly, based on the fact that most of the parking meters I used were decalibrated up to 5 minutes.

It is my right as a taxpayer to inquire information about the public authorities activity. Or at lest that's how it is in my home country. I am sure it is the same in Finland and that there is some law providing this right.

I fail to see why a public authority is right by default and the so called offender needs to prove his innocence, not the other way around. And the general attitude is "if they fined you, they must have been right", "stop whining".
Here the warden uses pen and ticket and probably wrist watch.
Wrist watch?! That's what I assumed also, and I consider it not to be reliable in an official matter, unless it is calibrated and checked on regular bases, following a documented procedure.
Learn to park idiot and whine less when you are punished for your crimes.
My pleasure! I would park you anytime you might want to!
Last edited by MTB on Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Tiwaz
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Tiwaz » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:49 pm

MTB wrote:Exactly. I mean, the last phrase.

I might have parked illegally for 10 minutes, I am not sure, therefore, I don't argue about that.

There are 2 ways of attacking an administrative decision: either that it is unfounded, or it has been issued by braking current laws and/or existing procedures.

But if the fine was issued by braking the law or any current procedures that are standard, then the fine is void. I was asking a proof that their instruments used are certified and maintained properly, based on the fact that most of the parking meters I used were decalibrated up to 5 minutes.
What? Now YOU don't know right time. You were the man with "Always The Right Time".
You broke the law knowingly. Stop bitching.

And in case you still have not grasped it, parking lots play by the time in the parking machine. It can show time to be 7:35 while it is in reality middle of the night, but in reference to clock in the ticket machine every single car is correctly timed. Official time is not relevant, as end and beginning of parking time is determined by clock on the ticket machine.

Does this explain the simplicity of system to your rather limited mind?
It is my right as a taxpayer to inquire information about the public authorities activity. Or at lest that's how it is in my home country. I am sure it is the same in Finland and that there is some law providing this right.
Show the law which requires them to provide such certificates to every idiot wanting them.
"I am sure". In short, you haven't got a clue.
I fail to see why a public authority is right by default and the so called offender needs to prove his innocence, not the other way around. And the general attitude is "if they fined you, they must have been right", "stop whining".
Because over here, we have extremely low level of official level corruption. Meanwhile you guys have repeated trend of absolutely criminal disregard of laws and assumption that you should be excempt of punishment.

When Finns break laws and get caught, we do not whine. We accept it as it is.


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filecore
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by filecore » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:01 pm

1. Free parking started from 19.00
2. You do not get fined if you parked from 19.00 onwards
3. By your own admission, you didn't wait until 19.00, but instead parked before that time
4. You didn't buy enough minutes from the machine which would have entitled you to be parked there
5. Therefore, you parked illegally - and you got caught doing so

Simple enough?


MTB
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MTB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:07 pm

For anyone interested or preparing for getting the driving licence, here are the traffic signs in Finland, and indeed, they are in relation with official time. The parkometer is indeed only a paying machine.

http://www.tiehallinto.fi/pls/wwwedit/docs/7729.PDF


Upphew
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Upphew » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:09 pm

MTB wrote:
Here the warden uses pen and ticket and probably wrist watch.
Wrist watch?! That's what I assumed also, and I consider it not to be reliable in an official matter, unless it is calibrated and checked on regular bases, following a documented procedure.
Hahaha! You should see the building inspectors in the woods... they must have calibrated and documented procedure to take exactly 1 meter steps in uneven terrain.. :lol:

If you consider wardens' clock unreliable, then you should take caution and start the parking 15-20min after the free parking has started?
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MTB
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MTB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:21 pm

If you consider wardens' clock unreliable, then you should take caution and start the parking 15-20min after the free parking has started?
Exactly my point.

Did you ever asked yourself why they usually substract 10 km/h from the speed recorded when they fine you for speeding (I didn't get any in Finland, my finnish friends got some, though)? It's because the precision of their instruments may vary, and they can loose in court otherwise.

Hahaha! You should see the building inspectors in the woods... they must have calibrated and documented procedure to take exactly 1 meter steps in uneven terrain..
Well, I recall seeing them in the city with laser beams...


Upphew
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Upphew » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:51 pm

MTB wrote:Well, I recall seeing them in the city with laser beams...
They can demand that in the woods too. And guess who gets to foot the bill?
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MTB
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by MTB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:00 pm

Again good point! Seems like they are left with a lot of money after paying the salaries/costs of that activity, in case of parking.. If not, then well, there are always costs to reinforce the law ;) Like state of the art 80.000 euros police cameras proudly developed in Finland, which we will soon see on the streets. Cannot complain, as the decisions to acquire those was made in a democratic way ;)


djaybi
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by djaybi » Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm

Hi everyone !

I was in Finland last week, and I got a parking ticket. I am back home in France now, and I don't know how to pay the parking ticket. Is it feasable online ? Or via money transfer ?

Thanks for any help you can give !

Cheers

jb


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