to install a lader on the roof

[Lisa 15]

Hi!
Now that I have find a company for my terrace, I'm looking for one that install safety lader on the roof. You know to access the cheminey I don't know how to look for it in Finnish. help welcome!

[DMC]

I can't help you, but why is it necessary? Our house has a permanent ladder to get to the roof but no ladder on the roof itself. I know such ladders are common here, but I have never understood why, and I don't want to put a ladder on our roof.

[Lisa 15]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I also need the lader to access the roof. This is so that the guy that comes to clean up the pipe can do his job, he won'¨t go up there otherwisr. I understood it was compulsory for safety reasons

[DMC]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I also need the lader to access the roof. This is so that the guy that comes to clean up the pipe can do his job, he won'¨t go up there otherwisr. I understood it was compulsory for safety reasons

I would check what is compulsory and what isn't. If your house is not a new build I would wonder how come it is missing a compulsory safety requirement. Our house has no ladder on the roof itself, and is over 100 years old; I would be surprised if missing a legal requirement can have been ignored for so long.
Do you know who cleaned the chimney last time? What do they say?

[Lisa 15]

we bought our house unfinnished and we build the cheminey too so the pipe haven't been cleaned yet...

[Upphew]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I also need the lader to access the roof. This is so that the guy that comes to clean up the pipe can do his job, he won'¨t go up there otherwisr. I understood it was compulsory for safety reasons

I would check what is compulsory and what isn't. If your house is not a new build I would wonder how come it is missing a compulsory safety requirement. Our house has no ladder on the roof itself, and is over 100 years old; I would be surprised if missing a legal requirement can have been ignored for so long.
Do you know who cleaned the chimney last time? What do they say?

Buildings are build to the code, but usually there is no need to "upgrade" existing buildings to new one. Good luck meeting new insulation requirements with older houses

Then there are safety regulations, which say that you must have this and that when working on roof -> no this and that -> no work -> chimneys not swept -> failure to comply with law and/or fireplace unused. http://www.lup.fi/safetyguide/index.html page 19

[Keravalainen]

Hi!
The Finnish word to use is kattotikkaat.
Ours are very good, and they were installed a few years ago by Kouruset Oy. - They are based in Tuusula.

[Lisa 15]

Thanks Keravalainen!. I 'm in kirkkonummi so I'd better look for a more local company

[DMC]

Then there are safety regulations, which say that you must have this and that when working on roof -> no this and that -> no work -> chimneys not swept -> failure to comply with law and/or fireplace unused. http://www.lup.fi/safetyguide/index.html page 19

Thanks for that link, which is interesting. It doesn't say that roof ladders are compulsory though, and we have our chimney swept without having a roof ladder, so I am still to be convinced that a roof ladder is a legal requirement.

[Upphew]

Then there are safety regulations, which say that you must have this and that when working on roof -> no this and that -> no work -> chimneys not swept -> failure to comply with law and/or fireplace unused. http://www.lup.fi/safetyguide/index.html page 19

Thanks for that link, which is interesting. It doesn't say that roof ladders are compulsory though, and we have our chimney swept without having a roof ladder, so I am still to be convinced that a roof ladder is a legal requirement.

As I said: old house -> old code -> no ladder required. But when chimney sweeper comes, he has his own work safety to consider -> no ladder -> no go -> no sweeping -> no fire in the fireplace. Of course people bend or even disregard safety regulations, but if something happens, guess whose ass is in court?

[DMC]

As I said: old house -> old code -> no ladder required.

OK, Thanks for clearing that up. So we don't have to have a ladder on an old house. The OP has a new house so they do have to have a ladder.

But when chimney sweeper comes, he has his own work safety to consider

Of course, everyone needs to consider their own safety, in the workplace and elsewhere.

-> no ladder -> no go -> no sweeping -> no fire in the fireplace.

Not true in my experience. We have our chimney swept without having a ladder.

Of course people bend or even disregard safety regulations

What rule is being bent or disregarded? You said yourself: old house -> old code -> no ladder required. So the only possible rule being bent or disregarded is that the sweep must provide his own ladder.

but if something happens, guess whose ass is in court?

If the sweep is disregarding a rule saying he must provide his own ladder, the sweep's arse is in court.

[Jukka Aho]

Thanks for that link, which is interesting. It doesn't say that roof ladders are compulsory though, and we have our chimney swept without having a roof ladder, so I am still to be convinced that a roof ladder is a legal requirement.

Roof ladders were discussed earlier in this thread with a link to the regulations. But here’s that link again:

• F2 Suomen rakentamismääräyskokoelma / Rakennuksen käyttöturvallisuus / Määräykset ja ohjeet 2001

The relevant sections are 5.1 – 5.3.7.

Basically...

• 5.1.1 ...there must be accessible, safe passageway to each nook and corner of a building which requires regular cleaning or maintenance, as well as room for working safely in that area.
• 5.2.1 Buildings over two stories tall must feature roof access from both outside and inside.
• 5.2.2 Ladder up to the roof must be rugged and resistant to the forces of nature, permanently fixed and located in a safe, practical and fitting place. (See also the illustration in the main column and the general guidelines given in the narrow side column.)
• 5.3.1 Practical and fitting, continuous passageways must be arranged to chimneys, HVAC equipment and other equipment and structures located on the roof and needing regular maintenance.
• 5.3.3 Safety equipment on the roof must be designed and installed in such way that it fits the looks and coloring of the building in question. (The implementation guideline given in the narrow side column additionally states that the architectural features of the building need to be taken in consideration and that special care must be taken to ensure that safety equipment installed in an older building will not adversely affect the looks or features of historical or protected buildings. Installing ladders etc. on an old building in such way that it affects the looks of the building in some major way may require obtaining a building permit or other permits in the case of a protected building.)
• 5.3.4 A building over two stories tall and with a roof inclination steeper than 1:8 must feature passageways on the roof built from ladders, roof ladders, roof bridges, etc. in a practical and fitting way. (Again, see the narrow implementation guideline column on the side.)
• 5.3.7 It must be ensured that sweeping the chimneys remains easy and safe.

I take section 5.3.4 to mean roof ladders are theoretically optional on other types of buildings (those which have only two stories or less or a roof inclination of 1:8 or less) if the safety requirements in sections 5.1.1, 5.2.1, 5.3.1 and 5.3.7 can be met by other means. But as far as installing roof ladders goes, I think people/constructors generally tend to err on the safe side.

The last time this code was changed was in 2001. The previous code was from 1982. Such codes don’t usually change retroactively so houses built before 2001 (but after 1982) probably follow the 1982 regulations. And an older building still would adhere to yet older regulations if you’re not making any changes or updates to the structures on your own accord.

[Upphew]

Of course people bend or even disregard safety regulations

What rule is being bent or disregarded? You said yourself: old house -> old code -> no ladder required. So the only possible rule being bent or disregarded is that the sweep must provide his own ladder.

No, occupant (owner?) is responsible for the safety of the sweeper. I can't give more authoritative source than this as authorities have upgraded their organization http://www.avi.fi/fi/Sivut/inenglish.aspx

but if something happens, guess whose ass is in court?

If the sweep is disregarding a rule saying he must provide his own ladder, the sweep's arse is in court.

Sweep is disregarding rule to check that ladders and other equipment are ok, and inform you if they are not, so you can fix them. But if are not ok, then it is your responsibility to make them so.

[DMC]

Thanks for the info Jukka. It seems that the OP, having a new house, must have a roof ladder or similar whilst I, having an old house, am not obliged to have one. Of course there is a still a common sense (and no doubt legal) requirement for anyone working on an old house to be safe, but I don't need a permanent ladder to achieve that.
The wording of the regulation seems a bit odd, as it refers to height in stories. My 2-story house is built on a slope. At one end (where the chimnies are) the height is like a single-story building but at the other end it is more like 3 stories. I think it would make more sense for the regulations to use metres to specify height. Certainly I would be very wary of working at the high end of our roof.