Warning for people living in/near Turku

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ywetka
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by ywetka » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:00 am

kungfu24 wrote:
I'd love to know what helped
Acceptance by the state that there was widespread injustice towards gypsies.
Ok, I see that except that first sentence you probably didn't read the rest of my post (or my PMs)... but ok, whatever. Hopefully you'll have a possibility to visit those countries and see for yourself (or come and tell this all to us, because you're talking 'new' stuff we've never heard and never tried to apply), because unfortunately you're only talking in a theoretic way without knowing the real situation here and therefore there is no point in arguing about that. I'm not saying this because I want to insult, no way, just because you're another one who (doesn't live here and) take minorities' side no matter what they do and do not try to look at problem closer. We're not that backward as you said... As I said, respect NEEDS to be mutual and not only minorities suffer and are the real victims.
Those fears about being accused of racisms are out of control now and unfortunately also pretty much abused... :(

PS: This is getting pretty much out of topic, so this is my last post to this thread. However I found few sentences in one forum that describe that problem with too much tolerance (yes, there is such thing, unfortunately), it sums the situation pretty well:
The discrimination thing needs to be stressed more. The whole EU is hell-bent on something they call "tolerance" for some reason (although it has nothing to do with the real deal). Basically a gypsy is a protected species - their families collect 30k CZK (1000 EUR) a month on social security alone (above citizen's usual income, which is funny but cca 700 EUR). They routinely engage in crimes (like the ones you listed, plus prostitution), but the state is unable to punish them sufficiently because they tend to draw the discrimination card and aren't afraid to push the cases to EU courts.
More about some experiences http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... s_so_much/ by LOTS of people in whole Europe and even US - they sure are all pretty wrong (ignore the insulting comments, as everywhere, idiots can be found).

Have a nice day.



Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

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kungfu24
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by kungfu24 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:01 pm

Rip! Ywetka's quote trumps your argument
He wrote
The discrimination thing needs to be stressed more. The whole EU is hell-bent on something they call "tolerance" for some reason (although it has nothing to do with the real deal). Basically a gypsy is a protected species - their families collect 30k CZK (1000 EUR) a month on social security alone (above citizen's usual income, which is funny but cca 700 EUR). They routinely engage in crimes (like the ones you listed, plus prostitution), but the state is unable to punish them sufficiently because they tend to draw the discrimination card and aren't afraid to push the cases to EU courts.
Welfare benefits are also contributing but as you can see, alone benefits are not enough otherwise Slovakian gypsies should also be living like Finnish gypsies. They are a factor but nowhere near to the most important one.

For Ywetka!

"Come and see yourslef" is not the best approach. 2-3 hundred years ago people would say come and see yourself that men are doing all the important jobs so ladies are incapable of doing them mentally and physically. Person like you would go and confirm the "fact". Same was in Finland, "come and see yourself" so many gypsies were in prinsons, so it's a proof that they were criminals, while for you it could be a strong enough proof, not for me.

Jews, blacks Africans, Finnish gypsies and ladies everywhere, problems were not solved or at least reduced until it was accepted that they were discriminated and were subjected to great injustice.

What you fail to understand is that social problems can't be judged on face value, you need to dig deeper to see the real issues. But as it seems that you don't have ability to see things from this angle, it's useless to waste time on you.
Last edited by kungfu24 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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ywetka
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by ywetka » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:21 pm

kungfu24 wrote: But as it seems that you don't have ability to see things from this angle, it's useless to waste time on you.
talk about being judgmental and intolerant :D whatever, man, finally, thank you! those are also my exact words for you :-) :beer_yum: .


EDIT: ok we explained our points via friendly private messages, it was basically a misunderstanding, so this discussion doesn't need to continue! :) .


Rip
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by Rip » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:50 am

kungfu24 wrote:Rip! Ywetka's quote trumps your argument
No i don't think so. First of all, without detailed calculation I still believe benefits are (even after PPP adjustments) better here (large families with no income can collect benefits quite nicely here...). Secondly, I never said there isn't or hasn't been discrimination, merely implying that there is even here behaviour on Roma's side which does not integrate well to a modern society (contempt of formal education and blood feuds as examples), consequences of which can be partly bandaged over with generous social benefits.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:49 am

Jews, blacks Africans, Finnish gypsies and ladies everywhere, problems were not solved or at least reduced until it was accepted that they were discriminated and were subjected to great injustice.
If you act like a human being, you get treated like a human being. if you act like a jew, black african, gypsy or a lady, you get treated as such. I have no tolerance for people not acting like humans. And that is what i decide is "human" not you, you must make yourself known to me before I decide. Act not human, steal, be a criminal, annoy me, you have the same rights as the dogturd next to you on the street.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


kungfu24
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by kungfu24 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:18 pm

Pursuivant
If you act like a human being, you get treated like a human being. if you act like a jew, black african, gypsy or a lady, you get treated as such.
I feel sorry for you and also for those who need to deal with you in everyday life. I hope and I believe that majority of Finns don't think like you.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:28 pm

I don't feel sorry for your kind.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


southwestx2
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by southwestx2 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:58 am

Anyone know how far out from the cities this is going on? Just wondering if I need to add some extra security to our place while it is empty,
although our neighbours are brilliant at keeping an eye on it for us.


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snorlonikins
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by snorlonikins » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:24 pm

southwestx2 wrote:Anyone know how far out from the cities this is going on? Just wondering if I need to add some extra security to our place while it is empty,
although our neighbours are brilliant at keeping an eye on it for us.
Apparently it has been reported in the Vihti paper as happening here and we are now reviewing our home security. As far as the cities go I believe that CarmenfromTexas is right in saying that they're organised. I lived in a semi rural situation in England and whenever the gypsies/travellers made an appearance in the area the crime rate rose. Whether they were responsible or other criminals took advantage of their presence, is hard to say.
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biscayne
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by biscayne » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:02 pm

Well, with our American friends helping so dilligently in sorting out the Roma communities in Europe, I'm sure there will be fewer and fewer problems........

http://slovakiamissionstrip.blogspot.co ... lt?alt=rss

and do Google Lunik 9....................


biscayne
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by biscayne » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:05 pm

.....and I'd have given anything to see the Montana Mission helping their "Roma brothers in Christ" pour the concrete, probably nicked concrete, along with nicked copper wiring, nicked alu roof sheeting etc.............. for their "church"...................priceless


CarmenfromTexas
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by CarmenfromTexas » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:30 pm

ywetka wrote:of course it's not problem of Finland, but that's why they should really take care about who they let in their country. Because trust me, we tried everything in Slovakia, and the problem is that also gypsies don't respect other Slovakians. Of course they are the same citizens as me, but I paid taxes all my life and I try to be a good law abiding citizen. I deal with them with respect, however they don't treat me (or other non-gypsies) in such way. They usually want something from me (money) and when I refuse, they curse me and spit on me... is it normal?? Politicians here are so afraid of being called racists that they rather chose to be blind and forgive them almost everything, while supporting them with free money and debt forgivings - I call this a discrimination against non-gypsies people, I don't know how to call that otherwise. I know you try to see non-gypsies as the root of problem, but you probably don't know the situation from first hand, because you've never lived in such country (I'm sorry if I'm wrong)... we suffer a lot, it's not easy. In fact it's so hard that I really consider to move from Slovakia - but don't worry, not to Finland ;-). I hate seeing all my tax money going to the big black hole, simple as that, I tried all I could...
Thank you Ywetka. Believe me your warnings on a criminal subculture does not go unheeded. There will always be con artists but none quit as organized as those connected by intermarriage and family ties. I don't want you to think your warnings are falling on deaf ears. It's not the case. Some people need to reinvent the wheel to understand it but such is life.
I don't know any Finnish gypsies and Finns don't seem to worry about them these days. When I first came to Finland I was fascinated by the ladies' beautiful clothes and long hair but now I am used to it. Only once had some Finnish gypsy ladies robbed my anoopi (mother-in-law). They needed a cell phone and she was too much in a hurry to lend it. So they gathered very close to her and stole it, they took out the memory card and put it in their phone. My anoopi tried to get it back but they pretended it wasn't them. It magically disappeared within the last 10 seconds. This happened on the entrance to the metro station and ended up on the train. I felt so badly for my anoopi because it made her cry in frustration. She is in her 70's.
Another interesting subculture of criminal activity is some of the old time motorcycle clubs. Kathy Reichs, author of the character Bones in books and the TV show studied up on them. They are extremely organized. They get their women to work in Govt agencies (especially as clerks in police stations) to give them a heads up on any trouble, or to phone homes to find out when families are usually not home so they can break into the house. They are involved in theft, drug sells, and prostitution.
They are motorcycle clubs such as Hells Angels or Banditos. I'm not talking about the motorcycle clubs made up of weekend warriors who are accountants and IT professionals on the weekdays. :lol: Interesting story about the Helsinki Banditos. They could not get past an associate membership to the Banditos. After a bazooka was shot through the Helsinki Hells Angels club they immediately got their charter membership with the Banditos. Pretty cool story. You can google it. Of course they were completely innocent of the act. :shock:

I hope one day for a Utopian world where people can feel confident when I am rude to them, it is because of something personal. It's not their looks, religion, height, weight, etc. It's them who are tap dancing on my last nerve

Best Wishes :D .
Eat the chicken and spit out the bones

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AldenG
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by AldenG » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:31 pm

What makes you think that band ever intended merely to borrow the cell phone in the first place?

The sad thing is that unlike, say, Britain or France or the U.S., there really was a time in the not very distant past when the only significant amount of organized or institutionalized criminality in Finland (or Sweden, a decade or two further back) took place in corporate boardrooms and higher government echelons. And those deals were considered the Finnish way, and if outsiders didn't understand that, they just didn't understand the reality of Finnish exceptionalism.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


CarmenfromTexas
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by CarmenfromTexas » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:19 am

AldenG wrote:What makes you think that band ever intended merely to borrow the cell phone in the first place?

The sad thing is that unlike, say, Britain or France or the U.S., there really was a time in the not very distant past when the only significant amount of organized or institutionalized criminality in Finland (or Sweden, a decade or two further back) took place in corporate boardrooms and higher government echelons. And those deals were considered the Finnish way, and if outsiders didn't understand that, they just didn't understand the reality of Finnish exceptionalism.
Sorry for trying to be competitive but oh boy does the USA have our share of corporate and political weasels. Some things are universal, both the bad and good. It's how we deal with it that can make us exceptional or business as usual. <-----Hallmark card moment. :lol:

It all worked out in the end. The women had the pleasure of making a phone call and frightening an elderly lady and my anoopi finally upgraded to a cell phone that didn't look like an old blue nokia brick.
Eat the chicken and spit out the bones

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AldenG
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Re: Warning for people living in/near Turku

Post by AldenG » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:05 am

CarmenfromTexas wrote:Sorry for trying to be competitive but oh boy does the USA have our share of corporate and political weasels. Some things are universal, both the bad and good.
No quarrel from me on that.

I meant only that in the recent past, Finland (and Sweden in the almost recent past) were almost free of mafia activity and highly effective organized crime as it is traditionally understood. The other countries I mentioned have had those for well over a century.

Now organized crime is fully rooted in Sweden and gaining roots in Finland, too. I'm not sure when it began emerging in earnest in Sweden but I think that in Finland, it didn't predate by much the dissolution of the USSR.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


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