Is Finland a 1984 Police state, or is there freedom?

niceguy40 · Post by **niceguy40** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:11 am

Can you tell me how much of a police state Finland is? Do people live free there or is there too much government interference and over policing?

**Sponsor:**

FinnGuyHelsinki · Post by **FinnGuyHelsinki** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:10 am

A police state, surely not, Finland is constantly ranked among the top countries for safety, happiness, least corruption,... One might not agree with those rankings, but at least they're an indication that things aren't very bad. There's loads of bureaucracy and regulation, though, something the current parliament is making noises about to decrease, which remains to be seen.

Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:27 am

You are free to do as everyone else is doing. If you don't... we don't need police to put you back in line.

Holland · Post by **Holland** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:57 am

As someone of Dutch nationality, whom is used to Dutch police I must say I respect Finnish police more than my own. Surely they too, are a used instrument to gain income by giving rather useless fines and so forth, but I found the officers I encountered always being very polite and helpful. One can also see that my race closer resembles that of people more likely to be found in a certain ethic group that tend to give trouble every once in a while. Yet I've always felt being treated equally like any other would, even though I do not speak the language, which does make me "another foreigner".

Long story short, I find the term "police state" for a country as Finland rather ridiculous. I believe there is a lot of hype going on concerning that matter due to the current situation in 'murica.

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:24 am

What kinda question is that? Are you trolling or are you genuinely asking?

Also, "too much government interference" is not the same as "police state". Jesus! Google the term.
Yes, Finland does have too much government interference. Finland is known to be a socialist nanny state. I don't think it's a bad thing, though. I think it's working pretty well.

Flossy1978 · Post by **Flossy1978** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:45 pm

He's from North America. And clearly knows nothing about Finland. Makes you think how close are his ties to Finland? I suspect he has no ties to it.

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:13 pm

While culturally, Canada lies between Finland and the US, to an American who has experienced both, Canada feels in most respects more similar to Finland (even more so to Sweden) than to the US. That is, once you get past superficial distractions like food and language. The main differences after those are that Finland feels much smaller and has a bit of "Helsinki syndrome," which is Stockholm syndrome when the hostage taker is your own government or its neighbor to the east. It causes a tendency to rationalize and defend authoritarian behavior like the recent Stockmann topic.

But a police state is essentially one where agents of the government act as though they are above the law. The US is much closer to that description than Finland. But to anyone (like Adnan?) who has experienced a TRUE police state, calling Canada or the US or Finland a police state sounds ridiculous and hopelessly naive and spoiled.

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:23 pm

Flossy1978 wrote:He's from North America. And clearly knows nothing about Finland. Makes you think how close are his ties to Finland? I suspect he has no ties to it.

70-80 year-old 1st gen Finnish immigrants to Canada and the US who go back to visit left an agrarian Finland in which most farms had a horse or a mule instead of a tractor and look in stunned silence when they see a modern technological society that looks significantly more advanced than the backwaters where they settled and continue to live in the new world, which lag well behind the technological centers of the US or Canada.

The 2nd-generationers usually have only their parents' picture of the old country, which politically fit the well-deserved description Kekkoslovakia. The parents were often labor unionists, which was (or had fairly recently been) a very dangerous thing to be at the time when they emigrated.

Oho · Post by **Oho** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:42 am

AldenG wrote:
The 2nd-generationers usually have only their parents' picture of the old country, which politically fit the well-deserved description Kekkoslovakia. The parents were often labor unionists, which was (or had fairly recently been) a very dangerous thing to be at the time when they emigrated.

Tell me more... Oh in this Kekkoslovakia or Finland in late 60's through early 80's (quite frankly Finland still is very much the Kekkoslovakia to date) you mention it was far more dangerous not to be a member of a trade union. You actually were liable to have the !"#¤% kicked out of you if found out and people, well me and couple of my buddies at least, were coerced to join even when only working for a short stint as a summer intern.

harryc · Post by **harryc** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:01 am

"Police State" - hardly - try to find one when you need one.

Beep_Boop · Post by **Beep_Boop** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:07 am

harryc wrote:"Police State" - hardly - try to find one when you need one.

I don't think police state means what you think it means.

harryc · Post by **harryc** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:28 pm

harryc wrote:
"Police State" - hardly - try to find one when you need one.

I don't think police state means what you think it means.

Check the edited post

AldenG · Post by **AldenG** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:15 am

Oho wrote:
AldenG wrote:
The 2nd-generationers usually have only their parents' picture of the old country, which politically fit the well-deserved description Kekkoslovakia. The parents were often labor unionists, which was (or had fairly recently been) a very dangerous thing to be at the time when they emigrated.
Tell me more... Oh in this Kekkoslovakia or Finland in late 60's through early 80's (quite frankly Finland still is very much the Kekkoslovakia to date) you mention it was far more dangerous not to be a member of a trade union. You actually were liable to have the !"#¤% kicked out of you if found out and people, well me and couple of my buddies at least, were coerced to join even when only working for a short stint as a summer intern.

Yes, by the time you mention, that was true. And you may know or else be surprised to learn that the US played a large covert role in that post-WWII transformation. US political leaders believed a strong and well-employed, pro-capitalist unionized work force in Finland would be one of the best bulwarks against communist influence from the east and so were generous with covert cash and political advice to the labor figures they favored, trying to ensure pro-US union leadership. (How much the finnish security police did or didn't know about this activity at the time is unclear to me, but I believe Suomen ku(i)valehti wrote about it at one time decades later.)

Anyway, for some time after the Finnish civil war (won by the right, who then began a campaign of mass executions of the losing side) and up to around WWII, a leftist was a dangerous thing to be. Thus much of the emigration to the US and Canada during that time was strongly leftist. Astoria, Oregon, USA, was one of several early Finnish centers. The Finnish part of town is only now dying for real, but that area is still called Uniontown.

I once saw a shockingly recognizable Finnish-American alcoholic in front of Suomi Hall in Astoria roar a gravel-voiced brokedown-livered challenge in what was supposed to be Finnish to people staring from across the street, then drop shirtless to the ground and start doing push-ups to intimidate onlookers. It could almost have been any park in Helsinki in the 80's-90's. Except he only thought he still spoke Finnish. And Helsinki's puliukot are probably beyond doing pushups. But the defiance was certainly recognizable. Oddly enough, he appeared to live upstairs at the union hall.

niceguy40 · Post by **niceguy40** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:04 am

Well to clarify I'm trying to move to somewhere that is the opposite of the US and the opposite of Stalinistic soviet russia. (communist). Canada is very near what the US is. (not good, that's all I dare say).

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:31 am

I still don't quite understand what OP wants. If he wants a country where the police is unlikely to shoot you unless you try very hard, this is a good place. One is also quite unlikely to end up in jail. If he wants a place with little red tape, this is not that good place and if he looks for a place where there is little government economic interference with [edit: economical affairs]- I can't understand why he would have short listed Finland in the first place.

Finland Forum

Find information about moving to, living in and life in Finland