Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

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justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by justaguy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:52 pm

I moved here permanently in December 2010. My first (A) permit was granted March 16th 2011, for a year.
Second permit was granted for 1 year, because I went overseas for 3 months for a holiday and didn't apply for an extension in time. This was due to me not knowing I had to apply early in advance, and due to me thinking it'd be fine because I had the 3 months tourist allowance without a visa.

Third permit was granted for 3 years, and expires August 27th 2016.
So to re-cap. 1 year (A) permit + 1 year (A) permit + 3 years (A) permit.

So far I've had a divorce (finalised last December).
March 16th 2016 will make 5 years on a continuous (A) permit, not including the time I spent here as a tourist without a permit.
I've also never missed a bill, and AFAIK I have a perfect credit history, and only a small student loan which I am not expected to start paying for a few years.
Currently I study a master's in Engineering in University in Finland

I'm signed up to do the YKI test in April. I think that my language proficiency is pretty good. I was marked as B2.2 when I left my Finnish studies after my first 18 months in Finland. I'm probably 5x better than I was then, at Finnish now.

My first question, is the YKI-test difficult for someone who's been living here 5 years and had government issued language courses plus own study?

I've done a lot of practice on http://www.suomikoulut.fi/yki/ - I can finish pretty much all of these even at the 'high level'. However there isn't that much variation, and I don't find many of these hard. Just some of the reading comprehensions and sanasto quizzes that ask you to spot the word that doesn't match the majority of words in the list.

Second question, it will undoubtedly take longer than from June 1st to August 27th (when I can apply if I passed the YKI-test), in order to have my citizenship application processed. Can I stay in the country whilst I wait for the application decision or do I need to leave within the 3 months after my visa expires at the end of August?

I'm a little confused because I don't have a reason to get an (A) permit any more after the divorce. However I am studying, so I guess I am eligible for the (B) permit. However I thought you need to apply for that from outside of Finland...

Final question - Would it be possible to move to a 'B' permit for studying and still apply for citizenship because I passed the 5 years mark and passed the YKI-test?



Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

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Beep_Boop
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 pm
Location: Niflheim, Suomi

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by Beep_Boop » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:30 pm

Since I have knowledge of only the first one, I'll answer that.

1. I don't believe YKI test is difficult. From what you're describing, I'm sure you can get the required score 3 with super ease.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by justaguy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:42 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:Since I have knowledge of only the first one, I'll answer that.

1. I don't believe YKI test is difficult. From what you're describing, I'm sure you can get the required score 3 with super ease.
Thanks very much for the answer.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2799
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:54 pm

justaguy wrote: Second question, it will undoubtedly take longer than from June 1st to August 27th (when I can apply if I passed the YKI-test), in order to have my citizenship application processed. Can I stay in the country whilst I wait for the application decision or do I need to leave within the 3 months after my visa expires at the end of August?
You need to leave. You need to be on a A or P permit to be approved: "Edellytyksenä on, että hakija on oleskellut Suomessa jatkuvalla oleskeluluvalla vähintään vuoden välittömästi ennen hakemuksen ratkaisemista."
justaguy wrote: I'm a little confused because I don't have a reason to get an (A) permit any more after the divorce. However I am studying, so I guess I am eligible for the (B) permit. However I thought you need to apply for that from outside of Finland...
That restrictions only applies to first permits.
justaguy wrote: Final question - Would it be possible to move to a 'B' permit for studying and still apply for citizenship because I passed the 5 years mark and passed the YKI-test?
No (see first answer).


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by justaguy » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:18 am

betelgeuse wrote:
justaguy wrote: Second question, it will undoubtedly take longer than from June 1st to August 27th (when I can apply if I passed the YKI-test), in order to have my citizenship application processed. Can I stay in the country whilst I wait for the application decision or do I need to leave within the 3 months after my visa expires at the end of August?
You need to leave. You need to be on a A or P permit to be approved: "Edellytyksenä on, että hakija on oleskellut Suomessa jatkuvalla oleskeluluvalla vähintään vuoden välittömästi ennen hakemuksen ratkaisemista."
justaguy wrote: I'm a little confused because I don't have a reason to get an (A) permit any more after the divorce. However I am studying, so I guess I am eligible for the (B) permit. However I thought you need to apply for that from outside of Finland...
Wait what? I didn't read that anywhere on Migri. I see that you got this from finlex.fi.

So does this mean that I need to have a current valid (A) or (P) permit right up to the very moment that they make the decision on my citizenship application? That's pretty bloody unfair if that's the case...
I can't apply even if I have a 'B' permit as a student? I don't see the logic in this because on Migri it states that I can apply whilst as a student so long as I still meet the requirements...

Why is this crucial piece of information (if valid) not written anywhere on migri? There is absolutely nothing about this rule written in Migri in either Finnish or English.

And you said I don't have the restriction of having to apply from outside the country for my first permit because I've already had 3 permits.


leisl
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by leisl » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:01 am

Migri is a handbook in human language. Finnish law is far more complicated than the Reader's Digest version that Migri publishes. And Migri follows the law.

Eligibility being examined at the time it's processed makes sense - for example if someone wants to come to Finland based on family ties, and at the time the application is processed there is no longer any family tie because the husband has died, well you get the picture on what answer they'll get.

Right or wrong, "just" students have never been treated as having permanent residence. They are always a special residence class given fewer rights, probably because most of them aren't big contributors to the economy, a bit like backpackers ;)

On the plus side, you found out before you ran out of options. At least the B permit would give you some more time to get your ducks in a row before having to leave the country. The YKI result won't expire before you can use it, so go ahead with that anyway.


leisl
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by leisl » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:07 am

justaguy wrote:Wait what? I didn't read that anywhere on Migri. I see that you got this from finlex.fi.
Incidentally it's mentioned here as part of the B-permit info, even though this is not specific to your case.
http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... ntial_time
Their reference to including B permits is for those who need to include B permit time to reach the required five years. Even if you waited an extra year on a B permit, you'd have the five years but still not have the A permit "just before a decision is made on your application". Which effectively means at the time it's decided. :?

After you finish your master's you can then have a further year to get a job on which to base an employment permit. At which point you could immediately apply for citizenship.


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Beep_Boop
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Location: Niflheim, Suomi

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by Beep_Boop » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:11 am

justaguy wrote:Why is this crucial piece of information (if valid) not written anywhere on migri? There is absolutely nothing about this rule written in Migri in either Finnish or English.
http://www.migri.fi/finnish_citizenship ... ntial_time
Migri wrote:You must have had a continuous residence permit (A permit) for at least one year just before a decision is made on your application.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.


mois_2012
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by mois_2012 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:15 pm

I wonder why you did not apply for citizenship after 4 years of A permit. Anyways, you can apply for citizenship in June but you will have to apply for a new residence permit after your residence permit expires.

"My citizenship application is pending and my passport/residence permit is expiring soon. What should I do?

You have to renew your passport and residence permit normally. The expiration of a passport or of a residence permit are not grounds for expediting a citizenship application.
Period of residence."

http://www.migri.fi/services/faq/citizenship


However, if you get B permit, it will be very problematic to get citizenship because your decision will come as negative, against which you can definitely appeal. You might win the case if you can get an expert lawyer (would cost at least 2000 €) and it will depend on many factors such as criminal records, whether you have paid enough taxes from your income in the last 4 years or whether you have taken social benefits in the last 4 years etc. And of course, the appeal process might take 3 months to 12 months.

However, if you get B permit, you can request migri to hold the citizenship process till you get A permit but it will be a lengthy process and you will have to wait very long time, let's say if you get B permit in September 2016, and if you get a Job in September after the B permit is given, you would get A type permit, let's say, in October 2016 (with own business, it takes more than 6 months for the process of residence permit), you will have to wait for at least 12 months after you get A permit.


You still have some months (about 6 months till August 27) to find a part -time/full-time job with which you can earn about 1165 €/month and you will get A type residence permit.

So, you decide what you want to do.


LightTravel
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by LightTravel » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:18 pm

Hey @justaguy, I was wondering - how it went with your citizenship application after divorce? Could you still apply for the citizenship even you got divorced after getting your "P" PR?


Y77
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Citizenship and YKI-Test questions

Post by Y77 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:08 am

justaguy wrote:I moved here permanently in December 2010. My first (A) permit was granted March 16th 2011, for a year.
Second permit was granted for 1 year, because I went overseas for 3 months for a holiday and didn't apply for an extension in time. This was due to me not knowing I had to apply early in advance, and due to me thinking it'd be fine because I had the 3 months tourist allowance without a visa.

Third permit was granted for 3 years, and expires August 27th 2016.
So to re-cap. 1 year (A) permit + 1 year (A) permit + 3 years (A) permit.

So far I've had a divorce (finalised last December).
March 16th 2016 will make 5 years on a continuous (A) permit, not including the time I spent here as a tourist without a permit.
I've also never missed a bill, and AFAIK I have a perfect credit history, and only a small student loan which I am not expected to start paying for a few years.
Currently I study a master's in Engineering in University in Finland

I'm signed up to do the YKI test in April. I think that my language proficiency is pretty good. I was marked as B2.2 when I left my Finnish studies after my first 18 months in Finland. I'm probably 5x better than I was then, at Finnish now.



My first question, is the YKI-test difficult for someone who's been living here 5 years and had government issued language courses plus own study?

I've done a lot of practice on http://www.suomikoulut.fi/yki/ - I can finish pretty much all of these even at the 'high level'. However there isn't that much variation, and I don't find many of these hard. Just some of the reading comprehensions and sanasto quizzes that ask you to spot the word that doesn't match the majority of words in the list.

Second question, it will undoubtedly take longer than from June 1st to August 27th (when I can apply if I passed the YKI-test), in order to have my citizenship application processed. Can I stay in the country whilst I wait for the application decision or do I need to leave within the 3 months after my visa expires at the end of August?

I'm a little confused because I don't have a reason to get an (A) permit any more after the divorce. However I am studying, so I guess I am eligible for the (B) permit. However I thought you need to apply for that from outside of Finland...

Final question - Would it be possible to move to a 'B' permit for studying and still apply for citizenship because I passed the 5 years mark and passed the YKI-test?
Regarding the 1st question, don't underestimate the YKI test.
I did mine 2 years after I came to Finland and after the integration course: the writing part wasn't particularly complicate but the understanding-speaking part was really challenging, there are no humans you talk to, everything is recorded into a machine, there are about 20 people around you shouting their answers very loudly trying to make sure their voice is recorded correctly and it is difficult to hear your own dialogue through your headphones. I wonder how many people failed the test because of this.

The 2nd thing is: arrive on time. When I did the test I talked to a guy that told me he was doing that for the 3rd time, having arrived late(just few minutes, he said) the previous 2 times, wasting around 200 eu. They didn't let him in.
By the way, I managed to get 3 in all subjects and the understanding-speaking task was about a ferry leaving from HKI to Tallin, what time was the departure, from which gate, check in times and so on. Good luck.


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