2 years requirement to get a phone contract

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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:55 am

Hey!

Thank for the input. I'm really surprised that Finns are suffering the same struggle, but that doesn't make it fairer.

I don't think this behavior is acceptable... They are assuming you aren't going to pay your bill unless you can prove you are trustworthy, i.e. you are guilty until you can proof otherwise.

It's really interesting mindset what we have here.



Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

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rinso
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by rinso » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:16 am

They are assuming you aren't going to pay your bill unless you can prove you are trustworthy, i.e. you are guilty until you can proof otherwise.
There are many situations where a security deposit (or other form of collateral) is required. Like paying a few months rent in advance.
An entrepreneur has the right to protect himself against scams and fraud. And foreigners getting an expensive "free" phone and never pay their bills is not an unthinkable scenario.


betelgeuse
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:53 am

lpuerto wrote:A quick reply about the right or not to internet and phone...

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/Finl ... egal-Right
While it's a legal right to have basic phone and internet, it's not a legal right to pay in arrears. A prepaid product satisfies the minimum.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:06 am

betelgeuse wrote: While it's a legal right to have basic phone and internet, it's not a legal right to pay in arrears. A prepaid product satisfies the minimum.
No one said that is a right to pay in arrears. If you don't pay they cut your service and suits you for unpayment.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:11 am

rinso wrote:
They are assuming you aren't going to pay your bill unless you can prove you are trustworthy, i.e. you are guilty until you can proof otherwise.
There are many situations where a security deposit (or other form of collateral) is required. Like paying a few months rent in advance.
An entrepreneur has the right to protect himself against scams and fraud. And foreigners getting an expensive "free" phone and never pay their bills is not an unthinkable scenario.
I could understand a kind of security deposit can be set in the beginning, a fair one could be an equivalent of one of the installments or a a regular invoice. They didn't ask for that at any moment and I've read in internet that some people has been asked for a really big deposits like 300€ or even 600€. My typical phone invoice is less than 70€ and I have two phones and home internet all in the same bill. I could also understand that you can put some restrictions in expending in the beginning.


betelgeuse
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:41 pm

lpuerto wrote:
betelgeuse wrote: While it's a legal right to have basic phone and internet, it's not a legal right to pay in arrears. A prepaid product satisfies the minimum.
No one said that is a right to pay in arrears. If you don't pay they cut your service and suits you for unpayment.
In arrears is another way to refer to what you called "phone contract" in the title of this thread. It more precisely describes what we are talking about (extending credit). You have been at the minimum implying that paying in arrears is a legal right and your rights would have been violated. I can also add to the previous comments that this applies equally to Finnish citizens (and they have equally complained in the media).


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:17 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
lpuerto wrote:
betelgeuse wrote: While it's a legal right to have basic phone and internet, it's not a legal right to pay in arrears. A prepaid product satisfies the minimum.
No one said that is a right to pay in arrears. If you don't pay they cut your service and suits you for unpayment.
In arrears is another way to refer to what you called "phone contract" in the title of this thread. It more precisely describes what we are talking about (extending credit). You have been at the minimum implying that paying in arrears is a legal right and your rights would have been violated. I can also add to the previous comments that this applies equally to Finnish citizens (and they have equally complained in the media).
You better pick up a dictionary and check the definition of "(in) arrears"(http://www.dictionary.com/browse/in--arrears). When I get a phone contract, or any other contract, I agree with the providing company that I'll pay a given or agreed, depending on the type of the contract, on a given time, typically a month and / or every month for the time begin. If I pay the amount the company bill to me the relation continue without a problem, but I decide not to pay then I'm "in arrears" with that company.

If you think that when you have a contract with a company you are "in arrears" all the time, I really recommend you to recheck your ideas. I cannot under any circumstance be on any kind of credit with that company because no invoice was issued. And if you are thinking that this works in the same way than a credit card you are also wrong. When I have a credit card and I use it (and pay a given amount every month) the bank have to check and authorize every transaction I make with it, until (usually) a given amount of money that is the limit, and of course an invoice is issued by a third person. The bank is doing as a "man in the middle" and is paying it for me, because it has a license to do so. Not anyone can loan you money, banks have licenses.

EDIT: PS/ I've been checking all the meanings of "in arrears" and you can have a point... since it could have a meaning of installment or wages or mensual payments. However, I have to say that it's a really residual and archaical definition and I never have listened before or even seen use to anyone... If you are in this terns means that your employer is "in arrears" with you until they pay you your wage at the end of the month... and you are not a bank either.


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wolf80
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by wolf80 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:44 pm

lpuerto wrote:
EDIT: PS/ I've been checking all the meanings of "in arrears" and you can have a point... since it could have a meaning of installment or wages or mensual payments. However, I have to say that it's a really residual and archaical definition and I never have listened before or even seen use to anyone... If you are in this terns means that your employer is "in arrears" with you until they pay you your wage at the end of the month... and you are not a bank either.
'Payment in arrears' is a common term and, besides the meaning of being behind with payments, means contractual payment of dues after certain regular intervals, usually months. It's neither a residual nor archaical term, it is common practice.

And yes, employers normally pay salaries in arrears, that's another legitimate and common use of the term.


betelgeuse
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:52 pm

lpuerto wrote: You better pick up a dictionary and check the definition of "(in) arrears"(http://www.dictionary.com/browse/in--arrears). When I get a phone contract, or any other contract, I agree with the providing company that I'll pay a given or agreed, depending on the type of the contract, on a given time, typically a month and / or every month for the time begin. If I pay the amount the company bill to me the relation continue without a problem, but I decide not to pay then I'm "in arrears" with that company.
For payment options payment in arrears has the following meaning:

"Payment in arrears can refer to the practice of compensating a service provider after the terms of the agreement has been met. This use of arrears accounting indicates that payment will be made at the end of a certain period, rather than in advance."

https://www.paychex.com/articles/financ ... in-arrears

I think my comment was clear enough not be confused with the meaning of being in arrears = late.
lpuerto wrote: If you think that when you have a contract with a company you are "in arrears" all the time, I really recommend you to recheck your ideas. I cannot under any circumstance be on any kind of credit with that company because no invoice was issued. And if you are thinking that this works in the same way than a credit card you are also wrong. When I have a credit card and I use it (and pay a given amount every month) the bank have to check and authorize every transaction I make with it, until (usually) a given amount of money that is the limit, and of course an invoice is issued by a third person. The bank is doing as a "man in the middle" and is paying it for me, because it has a license to do so. Not anyone can loan you money, banks have licenses.
So I can't loan my friends money? I am not going to explain business accounting in full here but please go read about Accounts receivable:

"Accounts receivable represents money owed by entities to the firm on the sale of products or services on credit."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounts_receivable

A tele operator works exactly like a credit card company when you buy something with an SMS. You only need a banking license if you want to deal with things like deposits and fractional-reserve banking.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:57 pm

wolf80 wrote:
lpuerto wrote:
EDIT: PS/ I've been checking all the meanings of "in arrears" and you can have a point... since it could have a meaning of installment or wages or mensual payments. However, I have to say that it's a really residual and archaical definition and I never have listened before or even seen use to anyone... If you are in this terns means that your employer is "in arrears" with you until they pay you your wage at the end of the month... and you are not a bank either.
'Payment in arrears' is a common term and, besides the meaning of being behind with payments, means contractual payment of dues after certain regular intervals, usually months. It's neither a residual nor archaical term, it is common practice.

And yes, employers normally pay salaries in arrears, that's another legitimate and common use of the term.
Then... it's my mistake, but I really have to recognize that it's the first time I hear the term in reference a salary, and when you check the meaning in a dictionary not all dictionaries have that meaning and it isn't in the first places. I always hear it in reference to debt you have to someone or company for paying late.


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wolf80
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by wolf80 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:32 pm

lpuerto wrote: Then... it's my mistake, but I really have to recognize that it's the first time I hear the term in reference a salary... I always hear it in reference to debt you have to someone or company for paying late.
It simply applies to all kinds of payments, no matter what contract or service is concerned, and independent from the billing. It is the opposite of 'in advance' for payments.


Honest
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Honest » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:56 pm

lpuerto wrote: Then... it's my mistake, but I really have to recognize that it's the first time I hear the term in reference a salary, and when you check the meaning in a dictionary not all dictionaries have that meaning and it isn't in the first places. I always hear it in reference to debt you have to someone or company for paying late.
Then you should have checked the dictionary yourself first before advising others to do so.


betelgeuse
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:27 pm

lpuerto wrote:Then... it's my mistake, but I really have to recognize that it's the first time I hear the term in reference a salary, and when you check the meaning in a dictionary not all dictionaries have that meaning and it isn't in the first places. I always hear it in reference to debt you have to someone or company for paying late.
There is debt involved in regular salary payments. You are a creditor of your employer until your salary is paid. In Finland the credit risk is mitigated by the state that steps in to pay you in case your employer defaults.


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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Beep_Boop » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:02 pm

Oh my god! Aren't you the same guy on reddit? https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/commen ... ntract_in/
If you're not him/her, then you're most certainly as obnoxious as him/her.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:43 am

Beep_Boop wrote:Oh my god! Aren't you the same guy on reddit? https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/commen ... ntract_in/
If you're not him/her, then you're most certainly as obnoxious as him/her.
Thanks for the compliment, you are also really obnoxious too... in the same way as some reddit users :lol: Don't take it personally, it's just internet. :wink:


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