2 years requirement to get a phone contract

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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:32 pm

NukkuMatti wrote:Let me try to understand, you are mad because you need to wait for 2 years before you are granted a fixed contract in your name.

So what is wrong then with the prepaid? Oh yeah nothing, you can get the same service but it is only the idea that because you lived in another country and not in Finland for the past two years, that you feel mistreated because company policy has decided you need to live in Finland for 2 years first before they grant you a fixed contract.

Do you understand that it is only a feeling, and feelings are very personal, this one is yours, some others might have the same feelings, but might have not or have other feelings. I for example have the feeling that immigrants (like me) are granted too easy all kind of benefits f.e. when they have nothing they can actually get money for a phone (prepaid that is), while the working man has to pay for this himself. (Toimeentulotuki)
But that is just my feeling, that does not make it a trampling of my rights or injustice to me because I work and have to pay for it myself.
In your case It is just how it is by decision of the management of the company you want a service of. Accept that it is like that or buy enough shares so you can vote for a change in the shareholders meeting. In my case I can vote for a party that wants to change this or run for member of parliament myself (after I acquired the Finish citizenship).

So stop wining and take action yourself. If you want something changed, nothing will change when you only come to a forum to wine over your feelings of injustice.
So get Finnish citizenship and vote for parliament and for the phone stuff, buy shares to be able to vote.

Some advice, go wine about your feelings in the forum "pub/tea corner" if you insist.
I don't have any feelings about this because I'm not the one that is being denying a service for an arbitrary reason the companies want to put.

So... since I don't have any problem with my feeling, perhaps you could understand that with I do have a problem is with all of us being treated before law equally and be able to access to services also equally, independently of our place of origin, color of the skin, sex... etc. That's even more important when we are EU citizens living in an EU country.

Is that difficult to understand?



Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

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betelgeuse
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:11 pm

lpuerto wrote:I don't have any feelings about this because I'm not the one that is being denying a service for an arbitrary reason the companies want to put.
They are not denying service. They are only denying a method of payment (there are some restrictions on what you can do with prepaid but let's leave that outside the discussion for now) and the reason is not arbitrary. The decision on how much credit risk they want to take is for the companies to decide even if you/we don't think it's a good one.
lpuerto wrote:So... since I don't have any problem with my feeling, perhaps you could understand that with I do have a problem is with all of us being treated before law equally and be able to access to services also equally, independently of our place of origin, color of the skin, sex... etc. That's even more important when we are EU citizens living in an EU country.
I will repeat what others have already said, denying access to pay in arrears when there is no credit history is not discrimination based on any of the reasons you listed. Point out such discrimination and I will gladly spend time helping to fix it.
lpuerto wrote:Is that difficult to understand?
Yes you are.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:00 am

betelgeuse wrote:
lpuerto wrote:I don't have any feelings about this because I'm not the one that is being denying a service for an arbitrary reason the companies want to put.
They are not denying service. They are only denying a method of payment (there are some restrictions on what you can do with prepaid but let's leave that outside the discussion for now) and the reason is not arbitrary. The decision on how much credit risk they want to take is for the companies to decide even if you/we don't think it's a good one.
lpuerto wrote:So... since I don't have any problem with my feeling, perhaps you could understand that with I do have a problem is with all of us being treated before law equally and be able to access to services also equally, independently of our place of origin, color of the skin, sex... etc. That's even more important when we are EU citizens living in an EU country.
I will repeat what others have already said, denying access to pay in arrears when there is no credit history is not discrimination based on any of the reasons you listed. Point out such discrimination and I will gladly spend time helping to fix it.
lpuerto wrote:Is that difficult to understand?
Yes you are.
Let's see if with an example you all understand this problem better. I've just been watching a really interesting movie called Hidden Figures about the black women NASA was using as computers to calculate orbits in the Mercury program. The movie is set in the 60's when segregation of black people was something normal in US. One the problems this girls had to face was they weren't allowed to use the same restrooms as white people. So in some cases they had to walk almost 2 km to have a toiled for colored people....

They weren't negating then the right to access to a service strictly because they had restrooms, but they have to face a hardship use it just because their skin was dark.
Now... understanding the great difference between these two problems. On one hand those girls had to suffer incomparable unfair treatment and discrimination in their daily basics and on the other this is could say just a really big nuance or a problem one can get around it if they have friends. We can say the problems are similar, negation of a service in a specific way for an arbitrary reason, just because you having living in a place more than a given time. And I don't care if the person suffering this is Finnish, Spanish, Chinese or American. It's just not fair.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:08 am

Would anyone considered fair that you when arrive to a new country, o have you been living out of the country for a while, have to be living in a hotel for two years, until you are consider trustworthy enough to access to a normal apartment? Because some of you have a really twisted logic.

And don't talk about deposits, because when you rent you have to put a deposit whatever time you've been living on the country or regardless if you are local or immigrant.


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wolf80
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by wolf80 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:56 am

I'm a pragmatic person. All this arguing does not help anyone.

If you had put all this time and effort into actually doing something instead of arguing at length just for the sake of arguing, then you would have my respect. This way you only seem to be whining, wasting the time of others, but doing nothing to help the situation. Too self-righteous to drop the issue but far too cowardly to lead the fight.

Either do something about it or not, but stop this stupid discussion!


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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by PJG » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:12 am

lpuerto wrote:Would anyone considered fair that you when arrive to a new country, o have you been living out of the country for a while, have to be living in a hotel for two years, until you are consider trustworthy enough to access to a normal apartment? Because some of you have a really twisted logic.

And don't talk about deposits, because when you rent you have to put a deposit whatever time you've been living on the country or regardless if you are local or immigrant.
When you go to rent a private property, the landlord or their agent will make a decision on whether or not you represent an acceptable level or risk in relation to your ability to pay the rent in full and on time. Being able to hand over a deposit is one thing, being able to meet the rental payment obligation for the term length of the contract is another thing entirely.

You're not entitled to a line of credit. It's a decision which is entirely down to the provider to make. They can provide services to you via a prepaid sim, but if you don't have a proven track record of paying your bills on time, having a regular income etc., they don't have to give credit. Nor should they have to.

That has nothing to do with religion, sexuality, skin colour, ethnicity etc.

Stop making something which is NOT racist (or even slightly similar) out to be that kind of thing.

If you're not happy to accept that this is the way things work, and should work in the real world, enjoy life banging your head off a brick wall.

Waster.


leisl
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by leisl » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:43 pm

Interesting that the housing argument was brought brought up, because actually yes, foreigners ARE discriminated against when renting. OP might not be aware of this, but to any intelligent landlord, the newly-arrived foreigner is the last choice for a tenant. They represent a high risk of flight while in rent arrears. This is LEGAL discrimination - the landlord does not specify why any tenant was not selected.

The net result is that generally speaking, a foreigner has to have one of the following to get housing:
- arranged by workplace
- Finnish spouse / co-tenant
- larger than usual deposit offered, or over-market rent offered
- stupid, foreign or emotionally sympathetic private landlord
- special circumstances such as sublease, furnished lease or short lease

A bog-standard lease is incredibly difficult for the average newly-arrived foreigner to obtain. Good luck campaigning to change that. You don't get to dictate other peoples' levels of trust in you. Trust is earned.

As one myself... whose tenant is foreign... I did not choose my tenant based on ethnicity, but it just happens that he's paying substantially over-market rent because he has an apartment that's furnished, includes power and internet, and is a short, flexible lease. He opted for my place because it suited his circumstances, but it's quite possible he was unable to find a more affordable place and his ethnicity MIGHT have been a factor.


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lpuerto
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by lpuerto » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:54 pm

I really don't know why if you consider this discussion a waste of time you keep coming.


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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Upphew » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:47 am

lpuerto wrote:And don't talk about deposits, because when you rent you have to put a deposit whatever time you've been living on the country or regardless if you are local or immigrant.
And you don't get post paid phone regardless if you are local or immigrant, if your credit don't check out.
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Honest
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Honest » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:38 pm

There are many places where foreigners are discriminated like job market etc but i fully support the idea of not giving a phone contract to a person who can't afford a deposit of 500 euros. What's that what you can't do with a prepaid that you must get a postpaid? A lot of Finns also use prepaid so it's not something especially reserved for the foreigners.


leisl
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by leisl » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:43 am

lpuerto wrote:I really don't know why if you consider this discussion a waste of time you keep coming.
Because other people are reading - the world doesn't revolve around you :)


Upphew
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Upphew » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Honest wrote:There are many places where foreigners are discriminated like job market etc but i fully support the idea of not giving a phone contract to a person who can't afford a deposit of 500 euros. What's that what you can't do with a prepaid that you must get a postpaid? A lot of Finns also use prepaid so it's not something especially reserved for the foreigners.
In the past I would have understood the gripes about prepaid, but now that you can get one that you can change to post paid later and keep your phone number. Not all prepaids can be changed though. Saunalahti prepaid cannot be changed, but Saunalahti latausliittymä can be changed later.
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Beep_Boop
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Beep_Boop » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:21 pm

roger_roger wrote:I have used and its money sucking machine. Not sure about current scenario but when I used prepaid to watch a video from youtube 50euros topover was gone within few videos.
Sounds a bit unbelievable, sorry. Elisa/Saunalahti has a daily cap of 1.95€, while Sonera has a 0.99€ cap. The only one that is actually sh*tty is DNA, but if you chose it then it's really on you. Having that said, all of the providers have a flat-rate data subscription for prepaid. I pay 49.95/year for 3G on my prepaid Saunalahti*

* My main phone number is prepaid. I've been using it ever since I came to Finland.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


Honest
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Honest » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:24 am

roger_roger wrote:
Honest wrote:What's that what you can't do with a prepaid that you must get a postpaid?
have you used prepaid yourself?

I have used and its money sucking machine. Not sure about current scenario but when I used prepaid to watch a video from youtube 50euros topover was gone within few videos. Whereas in post paid you pay 10e monthly and unlimited plan with good internet speed.
Unlimited Internet for 5-6 euros with enough speed to run YouTube on mobile phones


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Beep_Boop
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Re: 2 years requirement to get a phone contract

Post by Beep_Boop » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:41 pm

roger_roger wrote:I have been loyal customer of DNA since I stepped on this part of the earth. :lol:
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I like DNA a lot. It's just that they have the worst prepaid phone deals.
Every f*cking case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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