Driving licence exchange!!

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ALucard
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:12 pm

Driving licence exchange!!

Post by ALucard » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:46 pm

Hello guys. I need your help here please!
I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.

the problem is that the first driving licence that you get is a Probationary Driving Licence (2 years which will expire before the 2 year limit of residence ) means : I'm under strict point rules: 6 point instead of 12 like the regular one .

But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
Thank you
Last edited by ALucard on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Driving licence exchange!!

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rinso
Posts: 3727
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by rinso » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:39 am

ALucard wrote:Hello guys. I need your help here please!
I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.

the problem is that the first driving licence that you get is a Probationary Driving Licence (2 years which will expire before the 2 year limit of residence ) means : I'm under strict point rules: 6 point instead of 12 like the regular one .

But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
Thank you
If you still can drive with it, do. When it expires, renew it and then change it for a Finnish one.
Or start driving lessons and get a Finnish license. Based on your probationary driving license you might skip the obligatory 25 lessons.


ALucard
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by ALucard » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:16 am

rinso wrote:
ALucard wrote:Hello guys. I need your help here please!
I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.

the problem is that the first driving licence that you get is a Probationary Driving Licence (2 years which will expire before the 2 year limit of residence ) means : I'm under strict point rules: 6 point instead of 12 like the regular one .

But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
Thank you
If you still can drive with it, do. When it expires, renew it and then change it for a Finnish one.
Or start driving lessons and get a Finnish license. Based on your probationary driving license you might skip the obligatory 25 lessons.
I was thinking of using it until it expire but in Ajovarma they said if i get a new one while i'm here, it's not accepted!
because when i renew it i will get a totally new one saying just Driving licence with new issue date!!
so is this true? i can't change mine after it expire?is there any exception?
the lady in Ajovarma wasn't really helpful she didn't even want to listen to what i'm saying :/.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:42 am

rinso wrote:When it expires, renew it and then change it for a Finnish one.
This is not possible. You can change only licenses issued when still resident abroad.
ALucard wrote: But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
The law does not seem to have a restriction that temporary licenses would not be ok.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0386#L6P60

Would need to read background material to be certain. If you get a negative decision, your options are:

1) Appeal. This is hard without a lawyer.
2) Take the test and suck up the costs involved.


ALucard
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by ALucard » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:37 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
rinso wrote:When it expires, renew it and then change it for a Finnish one.
This is not possible. You can change only licenses issued when still resident abroad.
ALucard wrote: But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
The law does not seem to have a restriction that temporary licenses would not be ok.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0386#L6P60

Would need to read background material to be certain. If you get a negative decision, your options are:

1) Appeal. This is hard without a lawyer.
2) Take the test and suck up the costs involved.

I got a call today saying that they didn't even accept my file and that if i wanted i need to study from the beginning.
How can with this driving licence I can drive in the whole Europe and North America at least and not accepted in Finland to exchange?? not even to a temporary Finnish one!


PJG
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by PJG » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:38 pm

ALucard wrote:Hello guys. I need your help here please!
I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.

the problem is that the first driving licence that you get is a Probationary Driving Licence (2 years which will expire before the 2 year limit of residence ) means : I'm under strict point rules: 6 point instead of 12 like the regular one .

But in Finland they don't have the system point and they don't have this card!! i had an appointment today at Ajovarma and the women there kept saying this card is temporary and cannot be exchanged even though with this type of card you can drive in whole Europe with it from what I read. she took my file but said there is a big chance Trafi will not accept the exchange.!!
Can i have any help here on what to do!!
Thank you
If you have a different penalty schedule (6 instead of 12 points) and a short term validity for the license itself, you may be driving on a restricted license, not on what is commonly referred to as a Full license.

The bad news is that restricted licenses are usually NOT VALID outside of the issuing country, even in other EU member states.

That means it's unlikely you are licensed to drive a car here, even your own car. This is especially true if it has been licensed in the EU, but Finland refuses to provide any recognition for the license validity.

This is taken very seriously in Finland. If you want to say which country your license is from it will be easier for someone here to help confirm this for you.


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wolf80
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by wolf80 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:05 am

ALucard wrote: I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.
Thank you
You never said from which country you and your driver's license actually are.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:43 am

ALucard wrote: I got a call today saying that they didn't even accept my file and that if i wanted i need to study from the beginning.
How can with this driving licence I can drive in the whole Europe and North America at least and not accepted in Finland to exchange?? not even to a temporary Finnish one!
They need to issue you a written decision with a justification and appeal instructions. You should make a complaint to the state ombudsman using the web form on the relevant web site:

http://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/Resource.p ... /index.htx


PJG
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by PJG » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:37 am

betelgeuse wrote:
ALucard wrote: I got a call today saying that they didn't even accept my file and that if i wanted i need to study from the beginning.
How can with this driving licence I can drive in the whole Europe and North America at least and not accepted in Finland to exchange?? not even to a temporary Finnish one!
They need to issue you a written decision with a justification and appeal instructions. You should make a complaint to the state ombudsman using the web form on the relevant web site:

http://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/Resource.p ... /index.htx
They don't 'need' to do anything, at least not that you can say right now. You don't know the license, the issuing authority, or the specifics of the restrictions to be applied.

If it's not a valid license meeting the requirements for exchange, there's nothing to appeal. They told the OP when he presented the license and application that it's a temporary license, but relented when they pushed. The application was rejected and reason given: It's not a valid license for exchange.

No EU state issues full driving licenses, meaning not subject to restrictions, valid for only 24 months.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:47 am

PJG wrote: They don't 'need' to do anything, at least not that you can say right now. You don't know the license, the issuing authority, or the specifics of the restrictions to be applied.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 030434.pdf

Read Chapter 7. For example: "An administrative decision shall be issued in writing."

No matter how bocus an application to authorities, they need to issue a written decision.
PJG wrote: If it's not a valid license meeting the requirements for exchange, there's nothing to appeal. They told the OP when he presented the license and application that it's a temporary license, but relented when they pushed. The application was rejected and reason given: It's not a valid license for exchange.

No EU state issues full driving licenses, meaning not subject to restrictions, valid for only 24 months.
The Finnish constitution guarantees the right to appeal:

"Everyone has the right to have his or her case dealt with appropriately and without undue delay by a legally competent court of law or other authority, as well as to have a decision pertaining to his or her rights or obligations reviewed by a court of law or other independent organ for the administration of justice."

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 990731.pdf


PJG
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Probatory Driving licence exchange!!

Post by PJG » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:35 am

betelgeuse wrote:
PJG wrote: They don't 'need' to do anything, at least not that you can say right now. You don't know the license, the issuing authority, or the specifics of the restrictions to be applied.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 030434.pdf

Read Chapter 7. For example: "An administrative decision shall be issued in writing."

No matter how bocus an application to authorities, they need to issue a written decision.
PJG wrote: If it's not a valid license meeting the requirements for exchange, there's nothing to appeal. They told the OP when he presented the license and application that it's a temporary license, but relented when they pushed. The application was rejected and reason given: It's not a valid license for exchange.

No EU state issues full driving licenses, meaning not subject to restrictions, valid for only 24 months.
The Finnish constitution guarantees the right to appeal:

"Everyone has the right to have his or her case dealt with appropriately and without undue delay by a legally competent court of law or other authority, as well as to have a decision pertaining to his or her rights or obligations reviewed by a court of law or other independent organ for the administration of justice."

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset ... 990731.pdf
Wow. I applaud the intentions, even if it's crazy in practice.

Bo------gus! :)


ALucard
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Probationary Driving licence exchange!!

Post by ALucard » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:51 am

wolf80 wrote:
ALucard wrote: I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.
Thank you
You never said from which country you and your driver's license actually are.
I'm from Algeria and is part of the Geneva Convention and all the driving licence laws are similar to the french ones. even my driving licence is writing half in french.
At least from what i read Its approved, I can drive with it and exchange it in many European country Like France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland easily.
there is a lot of immigrant Algerian in this countries and they all said they were Able to exchange it normally.
They get a Probationary one too but when it expire they get regular one.
And the term probationary doesn't mean temporary at lease in Algeria and France it mean you are a New Young Driver under strict rule, example : i need to drive at lower speed then the regular driver in different road speed limit. not a single sign of alcohol in my blood. and 6 point instead of 12.
There is a Provisional Driving licence that is not allowed outside the issued Country. But the probationary one is allowed.


PJG
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Probationary Driving licence exchange!!

Post by PJG » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:06 pm

ALucard wrote:
wolf80 wrote:
ALucard wrote: I got a new driving licence from my country just before moving to Finland.
Thank you
You never said from which country you and your driver's license actually are.
I'm from Algeria and is part of the Geneva Convention and all the driving licence laws are similar to the french ones. even my driving licence is writing half in french.
At least from what i read Its approved, I can drive with it and exchange it in many European country Like France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland easily.
there is a lot of immigrant Algerian in this countries and they all said they were Able to exchange it normally.
They get a Probationary one too but when it expire they get regular one.
And the term probationary doesn't mean temporary at lease in Algeria and France it mean you are a New Young Driver under strict rule, example : i need to drive at lower speed then the regular driver in different road speed limit. not a single sign of alcohol in my blood. and 6 point instead of 12.
There is a Provisional Driving licence that is not allowed outside the issued Country. But the probationary one is allowed.
So, according to the Algerian ministry FAQ, the probationary license is valid for 2 years, but it's clearly a probationary license. The Algerian driver training and licensing program is not as comprehensive as EU/EEA licensing systems, up to the point where the probationary license is issued. You can fail on numerous secondary faults and still obtain the probationary license. This is not the case in Europe. What you have is basically a license issued to permit you to gain experience, once you've passed the driver oral examination and practical tests.

With the restrictions which apply, for speed limits, penalty points, and B/A levels, you are in effect driving on a training license of sorts. This is NOT a full license when compared with the Finnish licensing system. The decision not the exchange your probationary license (a training permit/license) for a full Finnish/EU license is therefore correct.

After the 2 years probation has been completed in Algeria, you can apply for a 'Definitive' driving license, in effect a full license. I understand that failure to comply with the restrictions which are still applied to you in Algeria during this time would prevent you from obtaining the full license there, with corrective or punitive measures being taken to ensure you are retrained/re-educated etc.

Furthermore, on the Algerian ministry website, it states that for the purpose of exchanging your Algerian license for a foreign license, you may apply for:

"Certificate of authentication of the driving license (certificate of capacity) issued by the daïra or the administrative district of the place of issue of the Algerian driving license."

http://www.interieur.gov.dz/index.php/f ... aqnoanchor

This would be accepted by Traffi/Ajovarma. It's stated on their exchange licensing FAQ.

I expect they will not grant you this 'certificate of capacity', as you have not yet fully qualified as a driver in Algeria, let alone in Finland. As you have not yet met the requirements of your home country to obtain a Full and unrestricted license, you are certainly not entitled to its equivalent here.

The Geneva convention and the conferred rights do not apply to your probationary license. I would caution you that your probationary permit is unlikely to be valid at all in Finland, so your insurances and other legal aspects of driving a car here should be questioned.

Finnish authorities may make mistakes, so by all means appeal if you wish, but it's unlikely they've overlooked what I was able to find out in 10 minutes.


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wolf80
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Probationary Driving licence exchange!!

Post by wolf80 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:15 pm

At that point I would actually contact and ask the Algerian embassy in Helsinki. If there is any chance for you they might know and have experience with this kind of situation. Otherwise you'll not have much choice but to go to driving school and get your Finnish license.

Also, considering the license is not recognized to be changed to a Finnish one, I would check that you can really drive with it in Finland for the time being. If not you could get into serious trouble.


ALucard
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Driving licence exchange!!

Post by ALucard » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:11 pm

I will do that.
Thank you for all your Help :).


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