Invoice from free online movie

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007
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by 007 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:44 pm

harryc wrote:Where does streaming or downloading films, etc. from Youtube fit into this schme of things?

And why the advice not to CALL? Taping of phone calls is illegal - and if one is calling to deny then the illegal tape wouldn't even be worth squat.


As far as I understand, streaming is allowed but downloading is not. Think of a case where someone posts a link here and those who click the link will find themselves having to pay for the content. so, it does not make sense to make streaming illegal or at least not practical. Not to mention that companies like google (youtube) will voraciously argue against it.

Actually, streaming youtube videos is also about downloading but it's stored at temp folder and also encrypted, so unless one really tries to decrypt it, that's not counted as downloading.

advice not to call is for one's own sake. The more details you provide, the tighter the noose gets. It's like everything you do or say is used against you unless of course you are innocent. So, not to call advice is not really suitable to those who haven't really downloaded or shared copyrighted stuffs online. It's a common sense.

The OP's case is the brilliant example of why one shouldn't call. Once he said he used popcorn time, it's over.
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

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harryc
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by harryc » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:12 pm

OK - got it - tks

But one point:

The OP's case is the brilliant example of why one shouldn't call. Once he said he used popcorn time, it's over.


Don't see how the call 'proves' anything as they would have to be able to submit a tape which would be illegal if they didn't also have a warning that was recorded on the tape and forensically showing the caller HEARD it or could have heard it


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by Beep_Boop » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:18 pm

"Dear caller, this call might be recorded for customer service quality purposes"
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by harryc » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:10 pm

"Dear caller, this call might be recorded for customer service quality purposes"


Yes - IF - they say that. And IF it can be forensically shown that it was not added later to the message (known to happen). Of course, if any caller here's that message, and they are in any controversy, then of course they hang up.


betelgeuse
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:21 am

harryc wrote:
"Dear caller, this call might be recorded for customer service quality purposes"


Yes - IF - they say that. And IF it can be forensically shown that it was not added later to the message (known to happen). Of course, if any caller here's that message, and they are in any controversy, then of course they hang up.


You seem to be operating based on some foreign concept of admissibility of evidence. The default in Finland is that illegally acquired evidence is acceptable. There are exceptions but they are not applicable in this case.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 000#L17P25


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by harryc » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:27 am

You're right - I thought Finnish law had somehow come out of the Middle Ages. It makes me wonder why there is that taped BS telling a caller that a recording is being made. Why bother - when they can seemingly do what they want - short of torture - which may not be finely defined either (might well allow Drumpf's water-boarding).


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:04 am

harryc wrote:You're right - I thought Finnish law had somehow come out of the Middle Ages.


The way Finnish law does it is common. For example the US Exclusionary rule does not apply to civil cases so the situation is the same there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule

harryc wrote:It makes me wonder why there is that taped BS telling a caller that a recording is being made. Why bother - when they can seemingly do what they want - short of torture - which may not be finely defined either (might well allow Drumpf's water-boarding).


The fact that the evidence can be used does not relieve them from responsibility in a separate process.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by harryc » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:23 am

But it sure does have an effect on 'due process' for the initial cases where the so-called evidence was 'accepted.'

Sounds pretty medieval to me. More than 'screewball' Certainly keeps the unemployment rate for lawyers quuite minimal.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by Upphew » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:09 pm

harryc wrote:OK - got it - tks

But one point:

The OP's case is the brilliant example of why one shouldn't call. Once he said he used popcorn time, it's over.


Don't see how the call 'proves' anything as they would have to be able to submit a tape which would be illegal if they didn't also have a warning that was recorded on the tape and forensically showing the caller HEARD it or could have heard it

Why would you need to inform the other party about recording? Recording phone calls is only illegal if you are not part of the phone call. Companies that record phone calls form a personal information registry and thus the law about them applies. But as a private person you can always record your calls, nothing illegal about that.
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betelgeuse
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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:56 pm

harryc wrote:But it sure does have an effect on 'due process' for the initial cases where the so-called evidence was 'accepted.'


"Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all legal rights that are owed to a person."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

Which legal right has the state violated by the evidence being admissible?

harryc wrote:Sounds pretty medieval to me. More than 'screewball' Certainly keeps the unemployment rate for lawyers quuite minimal.


Being able to argue the admissibility of evidence would allow for more hours to bill so I don't buy your statement without further analysis.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by harryc » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:38 pm

Sorry for any misunderstanding -

I exactly mean that the possibility to 'fight' over the situation - pro or con - means there is hardly any limit to billing possibilities except the depth of the adversaries' pockets.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by Rip » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:58 pm

AldenG wrote:In case you can't read those articles, the guy who lost his case ignored two of those demand letters and was adjudicated by the court to pay the original 600 demand plus 12 416,50 in court costs.

He agreed to pay. It was not a court decision. Possible that he feels sorry about it now, but I don't know on the details

OP seems to have effectively confessed. Though previous mentioned court case might still offer some help (the accused copyright violator got half of the case thrown out as the other party only had legal right to Finnish dubbed or subtitled versions of the relevant series), at this point I'd think it is better to pay the 600€ rather than go to court from weak position.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by Rip » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:04 pm

betelgeuse wrote:You seem to be operating based on some foreign concept of admissibility of evidence. The default in Finland is that illegally acquired evidence is acceptable.



As Upphew pointed out, recording your phone calls isn't even illegal in this country. It may be considered good manners to say you to that, but it is no violation of any communication law to if you don't.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:57 pm

Rip wrote:As Upphew pointed out, recording your phone calls isn't even illegal in this country. It may be considered good manners to say you to that, but it is no violation of any communication law to if you don't.


As Upphew also pointed out it can be a personal data act violation.


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Re: Invoice from free online movie

Post by Rip » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:14 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
Rip wrote:As Upphew pointed out, recording your phone calls isn't even illegal in this country. It may be considered good manners to say you to that, but it is no violation of any communication law to if you don't.


As Upphew also pointed out it can be a personal data act violation.

If you have something to back that up, please share. Otherwise I say that at most that creates some obligations, if you maintain those records systematically. I doubt also it makes any difference from that point of view if they openly state they are recording the calls or not.


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