Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

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justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:19 am

I applied for my 'permanent' (P) permit back in the start of August, expecting it to be done within 2 or so months. At least that's the time I was quoted.

Should have been a done deal by now. Basis of family ties, had all the required documentation and proof of paying tax, no crimes etc. for years.

It's now getting towards mid February... I applied back on the 5th of August.

I called up back in mid Jan and they said they had my application but couldn't give me any information at all on the status of it being processed.

I know that they've just offloaded like 9000 applications (the page said 6700 applications 3 days ago) to Migri, and I know I was one of the unlucky ones that didn't get theirs processed by the Finnish police, so mine is somewhere in the pile at Migri. Migri also says don't call them "blahblah" but this is pretty damn inconvenient.

The reason I ask is that I must return to Finland without the residence permit card if I don't get it within the next week or so. Currently I have just the stamped paper receipt print out that the permit has been applied for (at the police station). The paper isn't a valid travel document however.

An officer at immigration told me on the way out of Finland, that he would be taking my expired permit card and that I could run into some troubles coming back in if I didn't have my permit by then. I showed him the paper and he said that it's probably enough to avoid any issues. But I might run into some questions and be taken aside in Munich (on my return journey) before they let me back to Finland - this would be to ask me why I don't have a permit card yet. He said they may have to call Finland and double check the situation, and make sure I am not returning to the Schengen area as a 'tourist' too soon.

I know that I have the legal right to live in Finland whilst waiting for a decision on my permit. But I don't want any hassle when I return in 3 weeks. I'm married, studying in Uni and I am employed. So I don't think they are going to turn me around, but it's still making me anxious.

Has anyone from August onwards, (or even July etc) got their 'P' or 'A' permit granted by now?

EDIT: I was thinking of calling and ask if they can 'expedite' my decision as fast as possible because I need to return. Yet, I'm not sure they will do it :/



Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

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tavastia
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by tavastia » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:12 am

Unfortunately, the airline will not let you board the plane to Munich from your country if you don't have the proper permit in place. Your right to live in Finland is ok but they have no way to check it. If you make it to Germany it maybe possible they can check with Finnish border police, will take long, and let you in but airline will not do any extra effort if you don't have proper papers.


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 am

Well that really adds to my anxiety.

I thought it's not the airline's problem. If I get checked in all the way to Helsinki then I would suspect that the issue would arise in Munich when I go through border control in the Schengen area. They would ask to see my permit, I would provide the paper that I have which states that I am waiting for my permit to be granted.

As far as the legality is concerned. I thought I would have the following legal rights:

1. To reside in Finland until a decision has been made on my permit whereby:
a) My permit is granted and I can live via the conditions displayed on the permit.
b) My permit is denied whereby I have 30 days to leave the country.

If there was a problem of me re-entering Finland, I would have thought that the border guard would have made this more clear, or that he simply would not have let me leave until I had the decision made on my permit. I have definitely not heard of anyone being told "You cannot travel outside Finland, or return whilst your permit is being granted".

Here is from raja.fi:
I am a visa-free national and waiting for my residence permit. May I travel while I wait?

You may travel while waiting for your residence permit. As a visa free national, you can travel to other Schengen states for a maximum of 90 days within any 180 days period as periods of stay authorized under a residence permit shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States (Schengen states). In the case that you have used up your visa free time, you can exit the Schengen area directly through Finland and re-enter the Schengen area directly to Finland. Make sure to have with you the certificate of a pending residence permit from the Police with you ("todistus vireilläolosta").
This is point 5. from this page: http://www.raja.fi/guidelines/faq
I don't need a visa to enter Finland, so I thought that point 5 applies to me. Whereas point 4 applies to people who need a Visa, and in that case I WOULD have to wait until I got the decision whilst outside of the Schengen area.

I have exactly this Todistus vireilläolosta dated 5/8/2016 in my briefcase.

It's not like I am leaving the airport in Germany, except to go to Finland. Or am I missing something here?
_______________________________________________________

EDIT: There is also one other thing to consider. My permit expired officially on 14/08/16.

So if I am counting correctly. By 27/02/17 when I fly out to Helsinki. I am more than 180 days since the date that my permit expired. I haven't been able to find any concrete information, but wouldn't I just be fine going to Germany and Finland because I'd have 90 days of visa free travel inside the Schengen Area again? I can't find any concrete data on how the days are counted. It says from 'date of first entry into Schengen', but that would be something like 3 years ago. So I expected that the days would start ticking down, the day my permit expired. If either of these are the case, I should have 90 days of visa free travel, which means that I shouldn't come into any problems in Brisbane or Munich?


tavastia
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by tavastia » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:01 pm

You did not mention that you can travel without a visa to Finland, then everything will be fine you can come as "tourist" if number of days outside of Shengen is reached and later get your permit. Sorry.


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:50 am

The problem is that I don't know if I have any of those 90 days left. Counting back 180 days from my flight on the 28th of February. I HAVE stayed in Finland (and Schengen area) for more than 90 days. Except that I stayed in Finland after my permit expired on the 'todistus vireilläolosta' so I am not sure if these days count in using the 90 days of visa free travel that I have within the Schengen area, or not. There's no website or service that I can read from that says how things go in this situation...

So I don't know what the situation will be when I go to swipe my passport to fly to Helsinki (through Munich) on the 28th.


ssg007
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:32 am

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by ssg007 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:16 am

Calling them and asking them to expedite my application citing some business travel worked in my case, but that was the Poliisi. Not sure how Migiri would respond to it. But, if you ask politely anything could happen!


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:35 am

Ok I just want to clear up the situation for anyone else who's freaking out in the same situation in the future.

1. I had to show my todistus vireilläolosta to the airline check-in clerk in order to be able to fly back to Finland on a 1-way. If I didn't have the paper she would not have let me board without a return. The clerk quickly checked my passport and the only thing she was interested in was either that I had a return or the right to permanently reside in Finland. The paper was good enough for her (Even though it was all in Finnish) all I had to do was verbally translate the gist of it, and give her a moment to check that the stamp from the police was authentic.

2. Because I had been living on a permit (and pending decision) none of my 90 days of visa-free travel had been used. So I still had all of them when I entered Germany. The border control guard just checked my passport, shot me a weird look because she couldn't find my entry stamp to Finland. And then stamped it and let me go. I didn't have to show her my flight tickets, the pending decision paper on my permit or anything else.

3. Because I went through the Schengen border in Germany, the flight back to Finland was for all intensive purposes 'domestic'. I got a gate that took me straight to the entrance of the airport without having to go through any customs what-so-ever.

So.

A) Definitely keep the todistus vireilläolosta you will need it if you don't have a return (or your permit card).

B) Either be prepared (and know how) to translate the document to someone if they ask for it, or have an English copy (which can be gotten from Migri).

C) Don't stress like I did.

EDIT:

P.S. Your 90 days of visa-free travel do not decline when you are living in Finland whilst waiting for a decision on your permit (even if your previous one has expired). This information was given to me from a woman at the embassy.


dagimgebre
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:58 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by dagimgebre » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:04 pm

to justaguy
I'm in a similar situation. I'm in Germany right now, with a week left on my Finnish student residence permit. I have been waiting a month and a half since my application for a new one, but it won't arrive in time. I was wondering if I would have a problem travelling within Germany on an expired Finnish student permit (even with the new one on its way). Would the "todistus vireilläolosta" be of any use and where would I get one?


betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
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Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:28 am

dagimgebre wrote:to justaguy
I'm in a similar situation. I'm in Germany right now, with a week left on my Finnish student residence permit. I have been waiting a month and a half since my application for a new one, but it won't arrive in time. I was wondering if I would have a problem travelling within Germany on an expired Finnish student permit (even with the new one on its way). Would the "todistus vireilläolosta" be of any use and where would I get one?
It depends. Do you need a visa to be in Germany as a tourist?


justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:46 pm

dagimgebre wrote:to justaguy
I'm in a similar situation. I'm in Germany right now, with a week left on my Finnish student residence permit. I have been waiting a month and a half since my application for a new one, but it won't arrive in time. I was wondering if I would have a problem travelling within Germany on an expired Finnish student permit (even with the new one on its way). Would the "todistus vireilläolosta" be of any use and where would I get one?
Yo, I got back in with that paper without any problems however I did absolutely need it to get back in. The thing is, I was outside the EU for just long enough for my visa days spent in the EU to refresh and for me to get a new 3 months so no one asked me anything. As for the paper. I needed it only when buying a One-Way ticket as my airline "Etihad" wouldn't have let me on without it.

You would have had the todistus vireilläolosta from the Police if you had applied from there last year like I did but now Migri does them so I don't think they hand these papers out unfortunately. Also good luck getting them to give two !"#¤% about giving you a paper to prove to anyone that your permit is being worked on. Maybe you have some additional proof already that you have a pending permit application, but I am not sure because I am not aware of the process any more and I don't need to follow up on changes to permits as I will never have to apply for any again thank god.

Honestly if I was you, I would not have traveled outside of Finland whilst waiting for a decision on your student permit. I had to travel or emergency purposes but I made sure that I stayed outside the EU long enough to qualify for the 90 days visa-free travel again so no one would ask me annoying questions.

As betelgeuse said, it would also depend on whether or not you have the right to stay in Germany without a visa. We can't give you any real advice if you don't tell us what passport you are traveling on.


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Cory
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Location: Turku

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by Cory » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:33 pm

justaguy wrote: I don't need to follow up on changes to permits as I will never have to apply for any again thank god.
I think that you'll find the P permit card is valid for 10 yrs after which they want more money for an updated card with a new date! :?
It is a permanent permit but the card needs to be updated.
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justaguy
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Returning to Finland whilst 'P' permit is processing?

Post by justaguy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:44 am

I don't care about that really. It's cheap to renew and I'll go for a passport after I turn 30.


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